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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Is the Catalina 25 right for me and which keel

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Mike Tyler
Deckhand

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USA
3 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/13/2005 : 16:44:19

I am new to your forum. I am interested in the Catalina 25 or 250 and I thought it would be a good idea to ask for opinions from other owners.

Here is my situation. I have been sailing for a number of years and recently I have sold my Hunter 36 and I am looking for a smaller boat. I have a dock at my house but only have about 2 feet of water at low tide. There are several shallow areas between my dock and open water with about the same depth at low tide . My brother's Catalina 22 swing keel can float at the end of my dock even at low tide.

I want a boat that I can single hand, that has a roomy cockpit for day sailing, that I can cruise the ICW in, that can be trailered to the FL Keys or for maintance, and that can sail near shore from Charleston SC to the Hilton Head area. The boat will be in salt water at least 9 months a year. I would like a boat larger than a Catalina 22. My concerns with the wing keel is its ability to go to weather and difficulty getting the boat off sandbars when I go aground with the wing keel especially in sand or mud. I am concerned with the safety of the swing keel off shore, but it seems to other wise be a good for the choice shallow water and sandbar issue as well as trailering. I also suspect that a swing keel may go to weather better than a wing keel.

A traditional fin keel would not let me keep the boat at my house in tne water.

Have any of the members of the forum had to address similar concerns and what has been their experiance with the swing keel vs. wing keel regarding sailing performance, soft and hard groundings, keeping the boat in a tidal creek with relatively shallow water at low tide.

Any information and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Mike

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2005 : 17:52:24

The C25 wing keel has 2'10" draft. The C25 swinger has 2'8" draft. The C250 WB has 1'8" draft. Therefore, the only model that will not ground in 2' of water at low tide is the C250 WB.

All three sail well, but the C25s and the C250 are very different. The swing keel C25 points a little higher than the wing, but, IMHO, it isn't really enough difference to matter unless you are a serious racer. The C25 is really a joy to sail, but it's much heavier than the C250, and the extra weight means that it takes a beefier tow vehicle to pull it, and it makes the boat somewhat more difficult to launch and rig than the C250. The C250 is more tender than the C25, and when overpowered, it rounds up more abruptly, but what that really means is that you have to learn to sail it differently than what you were used to. You have to sail it flat and reduce sail area sooner. When you sail it that way, the boat sails very well.

Edited by - on

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2005 : 19:42:31

I have a 25wing. The wing does not go to weather well but is a stiff boat for the size and well mannered. It is a delight to sail off the wind. The wing will stick good if grounded. It will also not harm the boat at all to let it rest on a soft bottom during low tide. Major drawback of the 25 is the cockpit. It is narrow in comparison to the 250 and does not have the best ergonomics. The exception would be the 89 25 which has a much improved cockpit,deck, interior, headroom, ECT, ETC.

The main drawback of either swing model are grounding the boat. Neither are designed to be grounded with the keel up. It can damage both the 25 and 250.

The best boat could be an o-day 25 0r 26. They both have short fins with a fully enclosed centerboard. The fin would be easier to get off a soft bar. draft on the 26 is 2'6".

Here is one for sale.
http://www.sailboatowners.com/classified/ownerview.tpl?owno=11212828496637547&fno=60&brsku=11212828496637547.2&bd=[bd]&p1=[p1]&p2=[p2]&xs=[xs]&l1=[l1]&l2=[l2]&active=T&sb=[sb]&dr=[dr]&ad=%5Bad%5D

Tom.

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2005 : 20:29:50

I had a 79 SK to WK conversion for 14 years and would hate to try an count the number of times she was grounded. I never had a problem getting her free and back out the same way I came in. The trick, after dropping the sails, was to remove the rudder, crank up the iron gennie and spin the boat around about five times in one direction and then do the same in the other. Then I would point her out the way she came in and drive on out to deeper water, put the rudder back on raise the sails and off we would go again. Tom is correct about the boat just sitting down with tide change, she will stand straight up as long as there is no wind, but that should not be a problem at your dock since you willl have the dock lines for support. As a matter of fact that is exactly how I use to clean the bottom. I would take the rudder off, wait for high tide, ground the boat, tie off support lines for wind and tide effect, wait for low tide and then scub the bottom. She would sit straight up and all but the bottom 4-6 inches of the keel would be high and dry. I would also agree that the 89 or 90 wing would be my choice, if I was primarly going to just cruise the boat with a little racing on the side.

Edited by - on

cch
Navigator

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202 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2005 : 01:14:44

Hi Mike,

The Catalina 25 is a great, well built boat. I have a beautiful C25 wing keel for sale. We have some of the challenges you face as we dock her at our home in Panama City FL. At times we only have a foot of water in her slip. During such times I take the rudder off and let her sit on the bottom. No problems. Even with the shallow draft (I believe my wing is drawing 2'8") she is stiff in heavy weather and sails well.

If interested please look at the swap meet (C25 wing keel for sale/photos added)or visit the following link: http://www.sailingtexas.com/scatalina25119.html Feel free to eMail me with any questions.

Good Luck

Edited by - cch on 12/14/2005 01:16:54

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2005 : 22:35:32

Can the swinger support the full weight of the boat if the tide runs out leaving the boat balanced (or sideways) on the keel?

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2005 : 22:46:49

Hi Don, my swing keel boat is in its cradle with all the weight on the keel. The four raisers with pads are just keeping it from falling over.

Edited by - on

Lightnup
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1016 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2005 : 23:23:34

Frog wrote: <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The trick, after dropping the sails, was to remove the rudder, crank up the iron gennie and spin the boat around about five times in one direction and then do the same in the other. Then I would point her out the way she came in and drive on out to deeper water, put the rudder back on raise the sails and off we would go again.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Frog, I did the spin around thing a few weeks ago and, with the help of a wake from a passing boat, it worked great. However, despite many attempts, I couldn't get the $%#@^*@$&^# rudder pintle pins back in the gudgeon holes while on a bouncing sea. Every time I'd get things close, the rudder would want to float away in the current.

Steve

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2005 : 23:47:01

My old Spirt 23 had a lifting rudder rather than a kick up. It had a single very long pintle that had multiple cotter holes. It was a shoal keel with a centerboard. You could lift the rudder straight up about a foot and still have steerage. All that is required is a straight rudder profile which all the non balanced rudders have. I am sorry about the quality of this old scanned photo. Can you spot that I used my spinnaker sheets to tie up the rudder? Note that one would have to sacrifice the crappy traveler for a wire horse; not a great loss if thin water is your world.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 12/14/2005 23:49:06

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2005 : 15:35:58

Steve, you must have one of the newer rudders that float. My rudder was the orginial and it would sink to the bottom if it slipped out of your hands and you did not have a safety line attached. I can fully understand your problem since my new boat has a floating rudder. Just putting it on in the slip is a real chore, especially with wheel steering, with passing boat wakes. I have used this method in the slip a few times to help stabilize the rudder. I have a small 8 lb. anchor for my smug pot that I tie on the the rudder with a clove hitch just below the bottom pintle with the anchor suspended just below the rudder bottom and drop it overboard when lowering the rudder. It provides enough stability and weight to allow the rudder to be installed farely easily.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2005 : 19:31:01

Hi Mike
I'm a former owner of a Catalina 22 swing, and a current owner of an 89 Catalina wing.
I'll address trailering issues, as I have trailed both to the Keys (my next trip is for three weeks in late February/early March)
You will need a full sized truck for the Catalina 25, preferably with 4 wd for those slippery, or rocky ramps. I have a full size Chevy silverado half ton 4wd, and am at the limit of trailering capacity. I haul it from Knoxville, to the Keys, a distance of 900 to 1000 miles one way, depending on where in the keys. I cross some big hills in Tennessee. I do have a really well built trailer with 9600 lb capacity (8600 lb net) with torsion bar suspension, and stainless steel disc brakes on all 4 wheels. That is a must on all counts. You will need a deep ramp and a tongue extension on the trailer. I sail out of La Siesta Marina at mile marker 81.5. Not a great ramp, but enough water at high tide. You can also park your rig there, very important in the Keys.
Best ramps are at Pennekamp, and Bahia Honda, but parking and trailer storage is problematic if you are not renting a slip, campsite, or mooring.
The Catalina 22 swing is much easier to trail, launch, and rig. The 25 sails a lot better, especially offshore. The 25 has lots more room, a small galley, and best of all, especially to the ladies, a sit down head area. It is lots better if you plan on staying on your boat for an extended period and anchoring out.
Last spring I sailed to the Dry Tortugas and it was great.
A good trailer for the 25 will cost you 5 to 6 grand. Do not buy one if it is of small capacity, spend a few more bucks for a better one. Mine has an aluminum frame and stainless steel fasteners and galvanized axles.
I have run aground (don't tell the marine patrol please, and have been beached when the anchor let go in a sudden squall. No damage at all to the wing. It's really strong. Quiet too, with no keel cable hum.
I liked my 22 swing, but love my 89 wing tall rig 25.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2005 : 19:34:46

Hey to Mike again,
I forgot to ask you in my ramblings of my 22 and 25:
Tell us about your sold Hunter 36. Was it one of the older 36's with full rigging, and backstays, or one of the newer ones? I am fantasizing about getting a 34 or 36, and have looked at pics of older Hunters and they don't look bad for the price. I do like the newer Catalina 36 mark II's too. They are expensive.

Edited by - on

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