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Sailing is easy, motoring is hard

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kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/01/2006 : 03:52:17

I am a moderately experienced dinghy sailor, although rusty.

In a dinghy, you have the sails, and you have a paddle. When you leave the dock, you push away, and sheet in the sail. When you return, you sail up near the dock, release the sheets, coast to the dock, and grab it with your hand or foot as it gets close. Easy.

I have only motored a C25 and a C28 in about 4 days of sailing classes in Puget Sound. I did fine up there, although only 2 days of experience were relevant to the 250 (the C25 with an outboard). I am having a hell of a time with motoring my new boat, all two times I have tried it.

You can read a previous message (http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11102) about the first time. I was saved by an athletic 17 year old (who turns out to be 23 or something like that...whatever).

Upon leaving the drydock for my second voyage, I started the engine, and had trouble making it idle. It was getting darker by the moment, and because of my inexperience docking I really wanted to do it before it was pitch black. So maybe I rushed it a bit, but I warmed up the motor for like 2 minutes, and it still would not idle at its lowest setting. But I tried to set out anyway, with the same 17-23 year old aboard.

It did not go well.

The Columbia is near flood stage right now, and I think it was ebb tide. So I was dealing with what seemed like a strong current across the 20' channel I needed to navigate down after I left the drydock. I put the motor in gear, and gave it a bit of gas. The motor ran just long enough to get me moving, then died. In order to avoid drifting into a line of boats on the downstream side of the channel, I needed power. THIS time I remembered that I needed to put the motor in neutral to start it. I did so, and got it running again. This is when things got really bad. I didn't want it to die again, so I had the RPM up a little bit. TOO MUCH I thought, and then tried to reduce the RPM.

Have you ever noticed that the throttle motion on an outboard is the opposite of a motorcycle? Have I mentioned that I drove a motorcycle for years?

I *increased* the RPM. I also got flustered, and did not prioritize my actions properly. I SHOULD have focused on the tiller, and got the boat turned. Instead, I focused on getting the RPM down.

From the front of the boat (remember the 17-23 year old?) I hear a muted, but emphatic "Oh Sh*t!". I get the bow around, and we miss all the boats (I thought) but arrive in the only empty space on the dock sideways. I reach for a boat that is going by to try to stop us, but can't reach it, and fall in the space between the fuel locker and the starboard coaming instead. BUMP! We come to a stop.

"Did we hit anything?"

"Not really. I think the other boat is OK."

(I don't like the sound of that.)

I collect myself, start the engine (which died again)(yes, the gas tank vent is open) and this time manage to get away without further excitement.

I get about 3 minutes to calm down, and now it is time to try to get into my slip.

The current is running across the end of my slip, and we will enter heading upstream then turning across the current into the slip.

I have the boat slowed, we are crawling upstream toward the slip. The 17-23 year-old, having appropriately lost confidence in my ability to handle the boat, yells "turn now, turn now". I had not thought it was time yet, because of the current. But *I* have lost confidence in my ability to handle the boat too, so I start to turn.

I was right, he was wrong. Too early. Oh crap, we are not all the way into the slip, we are at a 45 degree angle to it, we are going crash into the downstream corner of the slip.

"NO WE'RE NOT!" I think to myself, and put the boat in reverse. With a mighty roar and proper (for once) application of rudder we come to a quick stop and then start moving aft rapidly.

First thought: "Whew, avoided that disaster."
Second though: "OH CRAP, WE ARE GOING TO CRASH!". We are still at a 45 degree angle to the channel, and are now rapidly headed for the line of slips across the channel from mine.

I struggle to get the motor turned to starboard. I have the outboard bracket, so I have the necessary freedom of movement, but the center rail still blocks the motor tiller, and slows me down, plus causes me to inadvertantly increase the RPM again while struggling with it. (All through this entire episode I keep getting the throttle action backwards, increasing when I mean to decrease, and vice versa, as well as having to struggle to keep the motor from dying.) I finally get the motor turned, and with a mighty blast, drag the stern of the boat to the center of the channel and barely avoid a collision with a boat I could never afford. I fight with the motor and rudder a bit more, get the boat in the center of the channel essentially stopped.

(Me) "Can you drive this thing any better than I can?" (He is a boatyard worker after all, seems a good bet. I am ready to turn things over to someone who knows what they are doing.)

(Him) "No, I don't think so."

(Me) "OK, I guess we will figure this out..."

(Him} "If you just get the boat somewhere near the dock, I can jump off and guide it in..." (Intelligent boy, he wants off the boat.)

I make another try from where I am, but am too close to the slip to get set up right. I recognize that things are going bad early this time, and ignore the boy's suggestions about turning. I get it into reverse, and back down the channel about 200'. Then forward again, and start over. THIS time I do it the way I would have if I had not listened to him, and we go into the slip just like I knew what I was doing. The boy jumps from the bow pulpit, not waiting to see if I can screw things up at this late stage, grabs the boat, and my second voyage is over.

Whew. Sailing sure is FUN!

A flashlight examination of my boat shows a black mark on the rub rail, and (the bad news) a bent and crunched bow navigation light. Oh man, brand new boat, and I already messed it up. I am *really* unhappy with myself. (In fact, I kept reliving the first part of the trip, leaving the drydock, over and over in my mind as I drove home, even dreamed about it. Punished myself, I did...)

So, after all this, a couple of questions for anyone persistant enough to get to the end of this message:

1.) Should I order the nav light assembly from Catalina Direct, or from the factory, or..?

2.) My motor is not broken in yet. My next time out will be a 2 hour motor to get it broken in. I am *hoping* that breaking it in will make it run better at low RPM. If not, I guess it will need attention from the dealer, as I don't know crap about outboards. If all you experienced folks have any thoughts or suggestions about this problem, or anything in this tale, I would very much like to hear whatever you have to offer.

Oh, I forgot to mention it was pouring rain the whole time...

In the end, my boat is in its slip, it is not seriously damaged, and I learned that I need to practice motoring a LOT, carefully, in the daytime, as soon as I can.

I must be twisted, even after all that, I can't wait to get on the water again. ;-)

Kevin Mackenzie
Former Association Secretary and Commodore
"Dogs Allowed"
'06 C250WK #881
and
"Jasmine"
'01 Maine Cat 30 #34

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2006 : 07:56:37

Kevin,

Your willingness to share allows us to comizerate with you...after all, most of us have our own stories, and you simply join a society that has long preceded you.

The 250 has a lot of windage leaving her far from elegant and quite frankly a bit gawky in her docking. Throw currents as you described into the mix and a balky outboard and the scene becomes as interesting as watching a one armed paper hanger.

Here is how I perceive things... a learning, skill aquiring and experience curve exist for many of life's activities. Until the apex of the curve is reached, we flounder and sometimes make as many misjudgements as good ones. Hang tough... sort out the hardware and skill issues and the apex will come and things will get better instead of worse.

To get to the downhill side of the curve...without doubt, the outboard will have to idle reliably.

At times like that, overload simply eats ones lunch...what is necessary is to simplify things so that more time can be given to observation and judgment so that good decisions are made rather than bad ones which then require major effort correcting. In my opinion, to get there on the 250 also will require linking of the motor-rudder.

I've made a lot of mods to my boat... the link was the very first and was made between my first and second outing. If you have not linked... do it. Don't take my simple word for this... dozens of others on this forum have affirmed that linking has saved their bacon. And, not only this forum... my softlink concept has been applied to a great many boats and is promoted on other sailing forums and some personal web pages.

Removing the chore of dealing with turning the outboard and tiller or wheel seperately goes a huge distance to freeing the skipper up for the things they need focus during docking. The goal should be to have as much time as possible dedicated to observing the boat and its relationship to docks and variables and as little as possible distractions dealing with the outboard.

I've never used the Catalina aft motor mount but have some concern that using it has some trade offs. While it may offer full motor rotation, it also shifts controls farther away. Many who have used it have also added remote controls. When one has to turn and then reach to the outboard, they are pulled from a position of observation of both the boat and the helping crew. When the motor is set in the well with the tiller handle swung vertical, the throttle can be reached easily from a standing position behind the wheel and with a front or tiller handle gear shift, only a slight bending is necessary to shift which distracts very little.

Thanks again for sharing

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 01/01/2006 08:00:43

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2006 : 09:31:26

You are correct about the motoring issues.

I am on my second bow light!

Which engine do you have? It should idle reliably, PERIOD. If it does not, you are putting yourself and others in danger.

One very useful thing to practice is backing up. While backing up against a strong wind or current, the engine pulls in the direction you choose and the bow stays down wind.

If you try to creep forward against a strong wind, you will have to fight to keep the bow from falling off.

I would try to time the next few outings for a time of slack or minimal tide. Get the mechaniics of it all worked out and then ramp up the difficulty.

Tom.

Edited by - on

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2006 : 13:08:27

Kevin

This sounds like my wife and I out on our first sail in heavy wind!

Or the first time we put up the mast on our Catalina 22,

Or how bout the time I dinghy out to the 250, answer the cell phone and finish the call, turn around to watch my dinghy about 200 feet away floating to shore!

We all have a lot of stories, you will have a lot of your own after time, but it will get a lot easier and you will become comfortable. As Arlyn says I would concentrate on eliminating the destractions. Like that damn brand new motor that won't stay running! Get it back to the dealer! Your break-in period will probably end two summers from now at the rate most use a motor on a sailboat. Unless you want to turn your 250 into a power boat. It should idle - period!

Link your rudder and outboard as Arlyn has recommended. I just linked mine this winter and know it will make docking a lot easier. It just removes one more of those destractions that get in you way of clear thinking.

Oh, by the way, fix the light after you've learned to dock!

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2006 : 17:49:03

Okay, y'all, I'm sold on the necessity to install a soft link to my Tohatsu 9.8 electric start. I understand how the port link pulls the motor when I push the tiller starboard when heading to port. But don't understand the relationship of the links when heading to starboard. If it's the bungee, how stiff should the pull be? We non-techie Luddites need to know

Arlyn...?

Edited by - AADIVER on 01/01/2006 17:51:30

River Harley
Navigator

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132 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2006 : 01:57:37

With EXTREME enthusiasm do I concur on the use of Arlyn's softlink modification. It will help in overcoming many "dances" in the moorage. The only thing that may require some getting used to with the softlink is the soft/hard linkage combination. Since the motor is attached to rudder with a "hard" line and the motor is attached to starboard side of boat with bungee, you will have to get used to the constant pull of the bungee on the motor to starboard (You never want to let go of the tiller while motoring or you will certainly "circle left grande" to starboard.) Finding the correct bungee is important. It should be stiff enough to exert adequate pull on the motor, yet not so stiff that you have to muscle it for port turns. I found that GI Joes has a black heavy-duty bungee about 2 feet in length that works well and provides confidence of being durable.

Every year I have my motor serviced by a reputable technician. I emphasize that I want the motor tested in the shop before I take it out each season.

My only other observation regarding your ordeal is...That's why even though I live near the Columbia River, I sail in Puget Sound. Tidal current is enough competition for me.

Have fun learning and remember: "If it doesn't kill you, it will make you a better person."

River Harley

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2006 : 07:44:16

River is right.... the softlink will load a tiller slightly.

An important feature I fear sometimes overlooked about the soft link is the loop of line around the upper pintle. This loop removes the load on the tiller and provides straight running operation for all but when doing the docking. A snap shackle to make the line from the motor to the rudder eye is used so that the line can be disconnected very easily to remove the pull of the bungee and lock the motor straight.

I like one of the little brass clamshell shackles with the little thumb lever to open. They are very easy to open with one hand and because it clamps from the end, extra slack isn't needed for hook up or release.

When releasing the shackle from the rudder eye, make it to a loop of line around the upper rudder pintle. The loop size should be adjusted so as to hold the motor straight. The connection to the loop will allow both straight running and will allow the motor to be tilted out of the water without disconnecting.

The loop of line is an important part of the softlink and will make the difference on ones attitude about how worthy the softlink is.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2006 : 09:01:11

I used to crew for an old friend, now departed, who had been sailing since Eric the Red. He had no motor and always sailed expertly in and out of his slip. He was a skilled racing skipper who raced in the Chicago to Mackinac Race several times. Two years ago, we were returning to his slip after a race, and his impeccable timing and seamanship were off only slightly. Instead of entering his slip bow-first, he tried to put the boat in it sideways, and with considerable speed. No sailor that I know has become so skilled that he never had a docking problem.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 01/02/2006 09:05:57

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2006 : 12:31:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Arlyn Stewart
 River is right.... the softlink will load a tiller slightly.

An important feature I fear sometimes overlooked about the soft link is the loop of line around the upper pintle. This loop removes the load on the tiller and provides straight running operation for all but when doing the docking. A snap shackle to make the line from the motor to the rudder eye is used so that the line can be disconnected very easily to remove the pull of the bungee and lock the motor straight.

I like one of the little brass clamshell shackles with the little thumb lever to open. They are very easy to open with one hand and because it clamps from the end, extra slack isn't needed for hook up or release.

When releasing the shackle from the rudder eye, make it to a loop of line around the upper rudder pintle. The loop size should be adjusted so as to hold the motor straight. The connection to the loop will allow both straight running and will allow the motor to be tilted out of the water without disconnecting.

The loop of line is an important part of the softlink and will make the difference on ones attitude about how worthy the softlink is.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Arlyn, I can't visualize this loop gizmo. Could you give us a picture or drawing of it? Thanks.

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2006 : 13:27:59

Kevin, I too went and still do go through slip issues both going in and coming out, however they are wind related, no currents. I have two boat hooks available one on a telescoping pole that can be extended to about 10 FT and the other one about 5 ft. saved all parts of my boat and others many times with just a push or a tug to clear a boat or pull into a dock. Just my two cents worth. 122 days till launch.

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2006 : 15:40:34

Just fingered it out: the loop at the pintle, together with the bungee, holds the motor center without having to tighten the friction knob. Right, or...?

Edited by - on

kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2006 : 17:53:44

Thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions. Thanks especially Steve's story about the friend who had been "sailing since Eric the Red". That gave me a good laugh.

Some responses.

First, in Yamaha's defense, I read the manual AFTER this incident (RTFM...sigh), and it clearly suggests that the motor should be warmed up for 5 minutes with the choke out partially before use. I didn't do that. I hope this is not really required all the time, but I did not follow instructions, so this may be part of the problem. I did in fact have it set up by the dealer, and run, before installation. My dealer STRONGLY suggested that I go out and motor it for two hours, first hour at half throttle with frequent small variations, second at 3/4 throttle with frequent small variations, all in one shot. He said if I did not do this, I will be much more likely to "have problems". I am going to follow his advice, the only reason I was motoring at all was to get to the drydock and back (there is no land access). If the motor does not idle VERY nicely after this, and after a 5 min warmup, then it is back to the dealer for a solution, for SURE.

At my experience level, I would NEVER be so foolish as to disagree with Arlyn, or say anything but "Aye, Sir". So the following is just a glimpse of what my thinking has been, about why I have the outboard bracket. Wrong it may be, but reading it may help someone coming after me...

There are a number of reasons I bought a 250 rather than a C25 - trailerability, open cabin, etc. But in regard to the outboard, with my boat I am just trying to make things as easy as they were on the C25 I sailed this summer (with a Yamaha 8 BTW). {You C25 owners can start gloating now ;-).} Anyway, on a C25 (at least the two I sailed), you can manuver the outboard 45 degrees to each side easily, and separately from the rudder tiller. You sit on the cockpit seat, one hand on the outboard tiller, the other on the rudder tiller. You leave the outboard alone for the most part, stand with the rudder tiller when you need to. No problem, worked great.

So, the most important thing to ME (not others, just me, everybody is different) was to be able to get the full 45 degree freedom of motion to each side like I had on the C25. I sailed with a C250 owner before buying my boat, and his biggest (only, really) gripe was that he could not turn his motor for a starboard turn.

I ordered the bracket, and it arrived on the boat installed. We hung the outboard on it, and before going any further, I sat in the boat to see how it would be. Sitting on the starboard cockpit seat next to motor gave me great access to both the rudder tiller and the outboard controls. It only moves the motor back about a foot (see picture here http://www.catapult.biz/sail/floorandfirst/pages/DSCN0030_jpg.htm). I did not feel like it was any problem reaching anything. I still have to raise the outboard tiller to nearly vertical (maybe 70 - 80 degrees) to make a starboard turn, and having not learned to do this is part of my debacle previously described.

I considered remote control, but decided not to do it. It would make much more sense for a wheel steered boat. On a tiller steered boat, you either would put the control on the starboard side of the fuel locker (which is where the tiller throttle ends up anyway) or you move it forward and put it on the wall of the starboard (or port I suppose) cockpit seat. I don't like this second location, the Hunter 25 I sailed had a remote control here (it was wheel steered). All of us kept stepping on it when the boat was heeled, and kept tripping over it. You could learn not to do that, but your guests never would. I figure that H25 owner will get to replace his remote unit periodically when it breaks from size 12 deck shoe application.

So my plan going forward is this: First and foremost, I ought to be able to sail my C250 about the same way as I did the C28 (inboard), i.e., leave the motor straight and have the throttle tiller in a convenient location sticking up, or level, depending on whether I am standing or not. If this works, and I only need to turn the motor in really tight situations once in a while, then I am done. Because of the bracket, I *can* turn the motor when I need to.

If it turns out that I am turning the motor all the time, or wish I was, then I will install Arlyn's soft link. If I had unlimited time to putter with my boat, I would do it for sure, just to experiment. But my project list is long, and so I will only move it up towards the top of the list if I really feel like I need it.

Y'all can laugh two weeks from now when I tell you I just finished adding the soft link. :-)

Again, thanks to everyone for the "I've been there too" comments. They help.

And I really like Turk's suggestion of not fixing the nav light until I learn to dock!

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2006 : 12:51:36

Hi Kevin... As a C-25 owner, I look at the 250 forum only occasionally, and was intrigued by the title and enjoyed your story--been there and done that to some degree. Sorry, but I'm skeptical about the "break-in period" being responsible for the balkiness of your engine. Warming up is important, but it sounds like you were past that issue... If you have a 2-stroke, I think your low-speed mixture needs some tweaking. If it's a 4-stroke, there's not excuse for that at all--the engine should idle smoothly when dead-cold.

Another issue you may not be aware of (but might recognize when it's described) is "prop walk." It's important to be aware that when the boat is standing still or not moving very fast and you gun the engine, in forward it will push the stern to starboard (turning the boat to port), and in reverse it will pull the stern to port (also turning it to port). You can offset this by turning the engine as if trying to turn slightly to starboard, and you can also minimize the problem around a dock or slip by using short bursts of power and then keeping the engine idled down so the rudder does the steering (making the soft-link somewhat less necessary.) You can also use it to advantage, depending on which way you want the boat to move. Just be aware of it--check it out next time (with the engine pointed straight) to see how it affects you. The current is probably a bigger issue, but everything can work for or against you.

It's like getting to Carnegie Hall... practice, practice, practice!

Edited by - on

kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 01/14/2006 : 01:47:50

Thanks Dave. On the motor, the dealer came out and looked at the motor, agreed it was not working right. He adjusted the idle stop higher, and also ran the engine at high RPM for a bit. Before he did this, it had blue smoke in exhaust, and ran rough like only one cylinder was firing. Afterwards, it ran smoothly, and there was no smoke. He speculates there was oil on the one or both of the plugs. Anyway, I will know tomorrow, as now that it is cold again, I will start it when I go out to "mess about" with my boat, and we'll see if it runs smoothly. I was handicapped before, I had never seen the motor run right, was not sure what correct performance was. Now I know, if it is not right, I'll try it again.

Oh, he also said that brand new motors are sometimes a bit balky until after the break in, which is why the dealer recommends you run the motor for the full two hour break-in in one shot, to get past this stage. I don't know if he is just blowing smoke at me, but they seem like fairly credible folks, and this was one of their mechanics, not a sales type.

We'll see soon.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 01/14/2006 : 18:55:54

Kevin,

Here is a technique I use when docking under adverse conditions. First, and probably most obvious, sail upwind/up current on a 45 degree angle to the dock. While approaching, gauge how the wind and current are effecting the boat. Once you know this, pass by the dock and make a second, corrected approach. Do not concern yourself with how seaman-like you may be precieved from the dock. Concentrate on the wind and current, and visualize what you need to do to brng your boat in. The balky motor of course, is an addition to the equation, but by understanding how the elements will effect your approach may allow you some time to compensate further for the motor.

Edited by - on

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