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Removing Bottom Paint

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/05/2006 : 21:49:28

Now that I'm finally retired (

), it's getting close to being time to stop procrastinating and remove the craters that came on the bottom of Passage when I bought her (probably about 15 coats of hard bottom paint). I despise the idea of sanding it off and creating cumulus clouds of toxic dust... I have concerns about the effects to the hull (and my wallet) from having it blasted... Has anyone tried using the "peel away" gook, such as the one sold in gallon cans by the Evil Empire? Any other suggestions?

Association Port Captain, Mystic, CT
Past member and DPO of C-25 #5032
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing) and posting as "Stinkpotter".

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Response Posted - 01/05/2006 : 23:09:37

Hey there Dave and congrats on your retirement!

I helped a friend remove bottom paint from his C25 using PeelAway. It was effective, very, very messy, and there was still some sanding required to really clean up the gelcoat.
I removed my bottom paint using a random orbital sander. I think Douglas was the first to post photos of his experience - adding a ShopVac to his sander. I have since used a vacuum on my sander for other applications and have been extremely happy with the minimal amount of dust that escapes.

If I had to do over I'd use this combination.

BTW, if you don't already have a chiropractor, you want to find one as you will most probably need to have your spine realigned when you've finished this project.

What about blisters and a barrier coat?

Edited by - OJ on 01/05/2006 23:14:42

Champipple
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Response Posted - 01/05/2006 : 23:47:48

Dave I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you are gonna be sanding buddy. Peel Away is moderately effective, you might have to go with multiple applications if you really have that many layers of paint. But as Steve noted, you will still need to sand You can also find someone to sodablast, bead blast or use coco shells. That might cost you 300, but it is well, well well worth it. Under no circumstances are you to care about the environment here, if it says friendly to the environment, it will not work. Let me repeat that - if it doesn't burn the hair out of your nostrils, tell you to don the chemsuit, and notify you to kiss your reproductive chances goodbye, it probably won't work. Peel away being the only exception, but be careful, they make a similar product that is green friendly that won't work.

Here was one of my original posts on the matter.....

http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10722&SearchTerms=paint,stripper

Good luck, and hire somebody...or use Goggles, full respirator, mask full body suit

dw

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
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Response Posted - 01/06/2006 : 08:17:20

Sanding is ok for a few layers of soft bottom paint, but, if you have 15 or so coats of hard bottom paint, it'll take several days of sanding and a gazillion sanding discs to get it done, if your back and arms last that long. Chemical strippers are the way to go for a job like that.

From what I hear, Peel Away is expensive, especially if you'll need multiple applications. There are two types of ordinary paint strippers. One is designed for general purposes, and the other is designed specifically for fiberglass cars. You usually have to get it from a store that specializes in automobile painting products (not just a generic auto parts store). It costs about $20.00 a gallon. Your job sounds like a 2-3 gallon job.

Spread something under the boat to catch stripped paint. Apply stripper over about a fourth of the boat with about a 2-3" brush. Leave it on, and, if it starts to dry, brush another coat over the previous coat of stripper. Keep it wet and leave it on until the paint becomes loose over the whole surface. When you begin to see the paint loosening over widespread areas, test a small area with your scraper. Don't be too anxious to scrape it off. Let it work for you, but don't let it get dry. After 3-4 coats, you can usually scrape most of it off down to the fiberglass. Cover your skin, because the stuff stings if it gets on your arms.

Also use rubber gloves. The kind I like are surgical gloves made of artificial latex (for people who are allergic to latex.) They last longer than natural latex gloves. They come in a box of 100 for about $10.00. When you take them off, just toss them, and use new ones when you start working again.

Don't use a putty knife-type of scraper. Use the type that have replaceable blades, and replace them if they become dull.

I suggest you get a pair of coveralls or bib overalls for the job. That way, you'll look really cool, and you can slip them off easily while you're waiting for a coat of stripper to do its work, and go inside and watch a ball game and eat munchies for 20-30 minutes, without getting paint and stripper on the sofa.

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 01/06/2006 : 09:04:41

Hi Dave,

Retired huh, now the real work begins

I retired fourteen years ago and feel that if I wanted a vacation I'd have to go back to work. It seems that everyone relates to a retiree as the person to dump their, "I don't have the time to do jobs on" with the resulting daily agenda growing by leaps and bounds. The problem probably begins with the first acceptance of a job, thinking heck I've got nothing to do today and before long you'll find yourself up to your armpits with things to do.

One of the first jobs I entertained was removing "X" number of coats of bottom paint The bottom resembled the texture of a pineapple.

At the time there was a fellow about to chemically strip a 21 foot sailboat, and so I watched, and what ensued was the best explanation to me of why this was not going to happen to me. Much has been said about the techniques involved and the need for protective wear and ventilators and scraping and sanding and chiropractors X ten maybe.

Perhaps what you should do is find someone about to chemically strip a boat and watch. That will give you the best indication of whether this technique is for you. Incidentially stripping happens while you are in a sitting/kneeling/laying position unless you manage to have the boat overhead. I opted to have the boat blasted. It was the best choice I could have made. The job was finished in a morning and cost $ 300. The fellow who went with stripping was at it for the best part of a week and the mess was more than I can describe. The sanding took several days more. I don't know about the chiropractor.

In any event I wish you well in you work.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT # 3936

Edited by - on

Kip C
Navigator

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USA
243 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2006 : 09:31:52

Stripping something with strippers, is like stripping wallpaper to me. The most important part of the job, once wetted down, is time (patience)! Another key part of stripping wallpaper, is scoring it with a coarse sandpaper prior to wetting, so the liquid can get to underlying layers. I'm one for experimenting, and wonder if doing the same on the hard fouling may help make it more effective. Never hurts to try new things! Something that has not been mentioned is temperature. Most strippers are most effective in warmer temps., thats a plus for a dustless sander, the weather doesn't need to be perfect to get the job done.
Amazon.com aka The Tool Crib has a Porter Cable ductless sander kit that comes with a hose, comparable to the Fein dustless sander for under $200.00. Just my 2 cents.

Edited by - Kip C on 01/07/2006 07:52:30

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 01/06/2006 : 10:14:50

Hi All, my marina told me it would cost $135.00 to blast my boat bottom. I just called them (this thread reminded me that I wanted it done) and I talked to Julie (she runs the marina) and she said, ok that will be $135.00 times the length of the boat!!!!! I could not believe it. $3,375.00 dollars just to take two hours and water/shell blast the bottom. I am still in shock. So, here is my next question. Why do I have to take all the coat of paint off? Why not just get the surface smooth and repaint? Thanks. I am still in shock.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2006 : 10:26:48

When removing the antifouling paint from my hull, at first I tried sanding, but my initial attempts resulted in many clogged sanding disks, paint dust head-to-toe, and not much progress. I considered chemical strippers, but declined on them because I was unsure what they would do to the underlying barrier coat, didn't want to deal with the mess, and I was on a tight budget at the time.

I settled on scrapping the hull to remove the bulk of the antifouling paint using a two-handed pull scraper. The paint on the hull was such that the scraper sent chips flying with not that much effort, kind of like scraping a badly peeling wood house. Since the chips coming off were quite large, there were virtually no harmful particles to ingest, although I did wear a dust mask. Most of the paint came off right down to the barrier coat, but I still had to do some sanding to get rid of leftover paint and to smooth out the bottom.

The only drawback was time, but since I had more time than dollars, it was worth it. The other thing was tired arms...

. Even though it wasn't backbreaking work, the arms still got tired from the overhead scraping. My scraping routine went something like,...scrape for 15 minutes, rest for 3,...scrape 10, rest 5,...scrape 5, rest 10,...scrape 1 minute, throw in the towel and do something else for a few hours. After about a week the hull was done and so were my arms.

(If anyone uses the pull scraper method, carefully round over the pointy corners on the scraper blades so as not to gouge the barrier coat or gelcoat...Don't ask me how I found this out!

)

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 01/06/2006 : 10:34:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by djn
 ...So, here is my next question. Why do I have to take all the coat of paint off? Why not just get the surface smooth and repaint?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Dennis,

If the existing antifoulant surface is still serviceable, then a light sanding and overcoat with a compatible paint is all that's required, but if the bottom paint looks like the surface of the moon, is coming off in chunks, or you want to change to a different style antifouling paint, then removing the existing bottom is required.

When I redid the bottom, I switched from an ablative paint to VC17 which required removing everything.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
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Response Posted - 01/06/2006 : 10:45:29

Dennis, that's by far the highest price I've ever seen quoted for blasting a C25. It should probably be a little more than Val's cost, because I think his was done 3-4 years ago, but it should still be closer to Val's price than your marina's quote.

Basically, you have two choices - do it yourself, or have someone do it for you. The latter is quick and easy. Just pay the man and in a couple of days it'll be smooth and clean. There are two principal drawbacks. Blasting is more expensive and it's a more aggressive way of removing old paint. It can damage the gelcoat a little or a lot, depending on whether it's sand blasted, or soda blasted, or blasted by crushed walnut shells. If it's done right, any damage will be negligible, and a lot of people do it that way.

Chemically stripping it yourself does little or no harm to the gelcoat, and leaves the finish extremely smooth. It's somewhat less expensive, but it's hard, unpleasant work.

Sanding is really only a good choice if the bottom paint is soft and not terribly thick. If you're not very careful, you can also damage your gelcoat by sanding. It's also hard, unpleasant work.

If you decide to do it yourself, you just have to bite your lip and dive into it, and keep thinking about how nice it'll be when she ghosts across the lake on the slightest zephyr next midsummer. If your bottom paint is rough, it's well worth the effort.

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Response Posted - 01/06/2006 : 11:02:17

Thanks guys for all your advice. My bottom (of the boat smart ass) is very smooth, it just has blueish paint coming off everywhere. Every time I rub up against it, it gets all over the place. As far as surface goes, it is not rough or pitted and does not have any growths. What is that blue paint? And, what should I repaint it with? Cheers.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2006 : 11:12:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by djn
 Hi All, my marina told me it would cost $135.00 to blast my boat bottom per foot-- $3,375.00 dollars .
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

3375 sounds about right for a marina to do it. There are some places that come to you and take care of it. Usually for around 600. At least that is the price I got here. The larger issue is protecting the boats around you so they don’t get hit.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2006 : 11:27:31

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by djn
 ...it just has blueish paint coming off everywhere. Every time I rub up against it, it gets all over the place...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Well then find something else to rub up against!

That's "ablative" bottom paint, which is designed to gradually wear off, exposing new biocide. It also can last several seasons and tolerate being out of the water, where "hard" paint loses it's antifouling effectiveness after a few weeks of exposure to air. Generally, you can put any ablative paint over any other paint (including ablative), but you can't put a hard paint over ablative. It's best to try to find out what ablative the P.O. used, and then pick something that says it's compatible.

A technique I've used is to put a coat of a particular color of ablative paint on the bottom, and then overcoat it with a contrasting color. If the undercoat is not showing when you haul the boat, you don't necessarily have to paint that year, or if anything, you can just put a thinned coat (less paint) on.

Thanks for the responses, guys--I will definitely get some prices and try to save my back... No sense starting my first year of retirement permanently bent over!

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 01/06/2006 11:31:13

Champipple
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Response Posted - 01/06/2006 : 13:22:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">

No sense starting my first year of retirement permanently bent over!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No, your right. Although I thought that was the position you are in when your working for the man. Not when you are retired

Edited by - Champipple on 01/06/2006 13:49:28

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2006 : 13:51:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Duane Wolff
 No, your right. Although I thought that was the position you are in when your working for the man. Not when your retired
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
...and when I'm with a client. At last I can stand up straight!

...and now that I'm retired, I have to stop wanting to get the red pen out! (Three of them here, but I have to let it go!)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 01/06/2006 13:53:11

Daniel
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 01/06/2006 : 19:03:05

I did not want to do any sanding and didn't - Catalina did not recommend sanding f gelcoat on my 1989, which was different from much earlier boats.

I used the Peel Away product (about 6 - 7 gallons) and generally it worked well. There were multiple layers and craters and it worked best when conditions weren't too cold or hot (dries out too fast in hot weather I thought). Had to let it sit and 'work' for at least a full day or so. Test a small area first to see what works best under your conditions. It was nice to easily scrape it off with the paper and dispose easily in the trash as recommended, rather than contend with the toxic dust. There were a few stubborn blobs but I painted some of the stripper paste on them, let sit, then scrubbed with a stiff brush and rinsed. The bottom was like new when I finished and I didn't touch the sander. I am not sure what kind of paint was on before, but I think it was an epoxy-type like West Marine Bottom Pro (it was not an ablative).

A friend had his 1982 boat bottom sand blasted (it had lots of blisters) and then coated with a barrier paint. It came out great and certainly was easier (but more expensive) than my job.

Edited by - on

Kip C
Navigator

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USA
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Response Posted - 01/07/2006 : 07:57:43

Daniel,
Which Peel Away stripper did you use? Was the boat on a trailer? How long did it take you?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/09/2006 : 14:54:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Duane Wolff
 No, your right. Although I thought that was the position you are in when your working for the man. Not when you are retired
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Hey Duane... I see you edited out one of your yours--you're getting the idea--just two to go)!

(Too much time on my hands, I guess... I'll stop it now!)

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 01/10/2006 : 16:01:47

I know what its supposed to be, I think I must type phonetically. My brain is usually about 4 sentences ahead of my hands... At least I keep the wenches off my winches and both stay clear of my refrigerator.

Edited by - Champipple on 01/10/2006 16:02:29

Daniel
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 01/11/2006 : 20:05:15

To respond to Kip C: I used the product sold thru West Marine (I think it is sold as Peel Away Paint Stripper. The original mfr is Dumond: http://www.dumondchemicals.com/html/products.htm
Note there are two kinds for marine use.
It took me perhaps two full days work time to get all the paint off (I did it over a couple of weekends) including cleaning the bottom after paint removal. I did one side, then the other. It might go faster if you had fewer coats of old paint to remove. IT was much more pleasant (less unpleasant?) compared with sanding. Experiment with a few areas to see how long it takes to 'work.' Apply the stripper, then the plastic-coated paper over that, and wait perhaps a few hours or so. Use gloves, of course when applying and removing, but I did not need a face mask.

The boat was on stands with the wing keel supported at dif't points in the process. I had to leave the keel unsupported for a couple of days after I recoated it with barrier paint while it dried, but that was the only time I was uncomfortable (and it probably wasn't the safest thing to do).

The bottom on this boat (1989) requires use of a no-sand primer, which I applied on a dry day after a very thorough cleaning, promptly followed by a couple of coats of antifoulant before the primer dried. It has done pretty well and the bottom now looks like new two years later. I hope I don't ever have to do it again!

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/11/2006 : 21:42:27

Thanks for the story, Daniel--that's how I presumed I would go, but I'm still going to get a price for getting it done... Either way, I don't plan to ever do it again--ablative paints should make it unnecessary. A friend of mine wipes some lacquer thinner on his ablative paint, which smooths it out and redistributes it on the bottom. He doesn't add a coat each year, but it looks great.

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 01/11/2006 : 23:08:01

Dave B,

Re: "A friend of mine wipes some lacquer thinner on his ablative paint, which smooths it out and redistributes it on the bottom. He doesn't add a coat each year, but it looks great."

What does he use to smear the thinner and softened paint around in order to get a smooth finish? That's been my only (minor) dissappointment with ablatives -- the surface became rough after a few years. I realize I could sand it smooth, but one of the reasons I switched to ablatives was to avoid sanding as much as possible.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/11/2006 : 23:50:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Leon Sisson
 Dave B,

Re: "A friend of mine wipes some lacquer thinner on his ablative paint, which smooths it out and redistributes it on the bottom. He doesn't add a coat each year, but it looks great."

What does he use to smear the thinner and softened paint around in order to get a smooth finish?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I don't remember, Leon... But he showed me the result last Spring and it looked like a baby's butt. I'll ask him about the technique. Also, I've found that once you have some ablative paint on, if you add a substantially thinned down coat with a foam roller, it turns out pretty smooth--much less orange-peel--almost shiny. (But in my case, it just adds shine to the craters!)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 01/11/2006 23:56:34

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 01/12/2006 : 06:42:44

Leon,

We used that one year and did it with a sponge and lacquer thinner. You only get about 15 minutes out of the sponge, but it works pretty well.

Edited by - on

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