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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Installing New Outboard Bracket

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Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/18/2006 : 14:07:19

I finished reading just about every thread I could find on outboard brackets/mounts and I think I will probably buy the 3 or 4 spring mount that Catalina Direct sells. It sounds like the best option. I have a Honda 15hp 4 stroke and the manual said it's around 115lbs I think. I searched and could not find much information on what is the best/easiest way to remove the current bracket and motor and install the new one. My boat is in the water and I'd much rather not have to take it out. I thought I read that someone rigged the boom as a crane to hoist the motor. How easy is that? I'm also thinking maybe backing the stern into the slip and see if I could (with help) hoist it up onto the dock. I know I'd definitely want to tie an emergency line to it so prevent losing it in the water. What methods have you all used? Larry, I read your posts and your site, was your boat in the water at the time? We have similar motors and I will probably be buying the same mount.

Thanks,

Justin
Previous Owner of Sapphire Breeze - 1982 Catalina 25 SK/SR
My sail blog site: https://reveriesailing.com/

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2006 : 16:00:48

Justin,
Backing into the slip and hand lifting the engine onto the dock is the easieist method. A safety line is good insurance. 15 HP is definitely a two man job. Go for the 4 spring model if you have a 15 horse outboard. 115 lbs is above the recommended weight for the 3 spring model.

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2006 : 16:29:12

I've removed and installed both Honda and Yamaha 4-stroke 10HP outboards on my C-25 at the dock. As Joe W described, I backed the boat into the corner of a slip, tied it off well, and ran a motor safety line as high as practical on a nearby tall piling. Having done this with both one and two people, what seems to work best for me is one person doing all the lifting while a second person stands by wringing their hands nervously, ready to jump in if things don't go as planned.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2006 : 16:33:10

Thanks for the tips. I looked at my photos and the engine would be close to the level of the dock, it doesn't look like it will be difficult with two people. Anyone know where the cheapest place to buy the Garhauer 4 spring mount is? Is Catalina Direct the only seller? I searched google, but am not finding any other sellers.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2006 : 16:54:23

Due to water levels, the walkways at my marina are almost level with the cabintop which places an outboard at or below the dock making it very awkward to remove it. Once when I needed to do engine work, I motored to and backed up against a floating landing dock in the marina that was just a foot above the water. This made things much easier.

Another sailor in the marina used the marina's gin pole to remove his outboard.

I've seen two people remove an outboard by first backing into a slip, putting the outboard in the corner of the finger dock. From there they made a harness for the outboard which was then tied to the middle of a pole which straddled the main dock and finger dock. The two guys then lifted each end of the pole and carried off the outboard like they were hauling away game after the big hunt.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2006 : 18:01:35

Justin,
If memory serves me right the Garhauer brackets made for Catalina Direct are only available through them. They are made so there mounting holes line up with the original motor mounts that the boat came with. Another popular alternative is the Garelick 71091 which several people on this forum are using. It is more expensive but offers more vertical travel.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3521 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2006 : 19:43:34

Justin,

I normally back into my slip. When it was time to changeout the bracket. I just backed it in a little further so I could take the motor off on the main floating dock and not on the finger slip side. The 12 yr old 9.9 hp Honda that I presently have weighs just over 100lbs but it's a bit lighter than the present Honda 4-stroke being sold. I just lifted it straight off the bracket and rested it on it's side on the dock. One thing that I was told by a nearby marina that sells motors is that if you rest the motor on it's side, at least my motor has a preferred side for it to be rested on, otherwise the oil comes out if rested on the wrong side - at least that is what they told me. The preferred side on my motor is the one that has two metal tabs on it up near where the motor cover fits. I was to rest it on the dock with the metal tabs adjacent to the dock. Also keeping the motor works inclined above the prop.

Once the motor was dealt with, I tied a line onto the old bracket and to the stern rail. Then removed the bolt & nuts. Removed the bracket and then used a plastic scraper to get off the old sealant. By the way - remember to remove the electric start wiring, etc out of the transom before removing the motor from the bracket.

The removal part was pretty easy and so was the installation. The details are on my website.

I am going to buy a new motor. Anyone wants a 12 yr Honda 4 - stroke for say $300 or best offer, I would like to sell it. It's a handyman special. It runs very well...when it starts ! 60-70% of the time it starts up fine. The other times, it doesn't. That is with the electric start. Using the manual starting technique...well on the positive side, it gives one a good workout. If it doesn't start after say 10 crankings using the electric start, then I wait 15 minutes, try again and then wait another 15 minutes and try again. This goes on sometimes for a 1/2 - 1 hr but it eventually starts. When it starts, it is as though there were never any earlier problems. This fall, the Honda mechanic replaced the carburetor, tuned it up and tweaked some addl things but the motor acted up a bit for him as well. he indicated it was an electrical issue and recommended that all the electronics be changed out. But went on to say that it may cost $700-$900 to fix and felt it better for me to invest the money into a new motor rather into an old motor. Still, some of you engine experts may be interested in it.

Edited by - on

Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2006 : 08:23:22

Thanks for all the info everyone, I appreciate it. Larry, yeah I noticed in the manual it said something about resting it on one side only, so I'll need to make sure I rest it on the correct side. It doesn't look like swapping the mount is going to be as difficult as I was first thinking. I might place an order through CD today and get some other parts I may need.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3521 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2006 : 12:40:07

Justin,

Recommend read the info/look at the photos on my website regarding the two bolts that thread thru the nuts near the upper spring support. On the bracket I received from CD, the threads did not protrude thru the nuts and in fact were barely touching the nylon thread insert that is in the self locking nut. Installed properly, the threads should come out of the nut about 1-2 threads. Anyway...more details about this on my website.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2006 : 12:51:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Justin4192
 Anyone know where the cheapest place to buy the Garhauer 4 spring mount is? Is Catalina Direct the only seller? I searched google, but am not finding any other sellers.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Even Garhauer doesn't admit on their site to having that bracket--they might be making it only for CD these days. They did modify it per CD's request... I'll reluctantly

offer the opinion that for a 15 hp 4-stroke (a lot of thrust and weight), the Garelick, made of cast aluminum box sections, is a stronger design than the welded tubes of the Garhauer.

Edited by - on

Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2006 : 13:31:00

Hmmmm... Dave, I was about to go ahead and just get the Garhauer, but now you have me thinking about the Garelick. I did a search and found that West Marine/Boat U.S. actually have the lowest price, $280 with free shipping. They are out of stock and have an ETA of 1/26. I'm not in any hurry, but I do want to replace mine. So, same price, actually cheaper since free shipping but I still have a few other things I need at CD. Does anyone know if the Garelick will be able to use the same mounting holes as the original? Also, is the clearance from the transom the same? Larry has a similar engine to mine, so I know I should not have any problems if I go with the Garhauer (hopefully they've fixed the short bolt issue).

Edited by - Justin on 01/19/2006 15:14:06

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2006 : 13:37:41

Hi Justin,

I just removed an old Johnson 9.9 and replaced it with the new Nissan and did it solo using the Garhauer motor lift. It was a little bit intimidating but had to be done and since no one was available I went for it. The motor lift works like a charm and is well worth the price. It stores in the large locker and saves a lot of back aches when removing anything heavier than a six pack.

Wow I just checked the price $ 265 was $ 179 when I bought it a couple of years ago. Thats progress.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT # 3936 Patchogue

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2006 : 15:04:56

Justin,

Last year I purchased and installed the Garelick mount you are referring to. Unfortunately the holes did not line up with the existing holes in my transom, so I had to fill and drill. Not a big deal though, but the boat was on the trailer. If I tried to do this in the water, it might have posed more of a challenge.

One thing you might consider no matter which mount you decide upon is using a backing plate between the mount and your transom, and then on the interior between the bolts/washers and the inside of the transom. This will help spread the load a little better. When I did mine I used (I think) half inch starboard. It worked well and looks nice. And with my old engine (Johnson 9.9) the extra half inch was helpful when raising the engine all the way up. Without that extra half inch the engine cowling bumped the back of the boat and I wasn't able to raise the engine all the way.

Good luck.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2006 : 16:55:05

Careful, Justin--if you go Garelick, you want the 71091, not the 71090. There is a substantial difference in vertical travel. I haven't seen the 71091 anywhere close to $280. Installation will be more complicated, but if you need more clearance, as Ben suggested, you can block it out with Starboard--a good idea anyway. (I did that years ago with my Fulton bracket before Garelick had this model.) You can even use multiple layers of Starboard.

Others might tell you the Garhauer is fine for that engine--I won't go to the mat arguing that, but I've heard of several "bent" or "distorted" Garhauers over the years, and I don't believe the basic frame has changed--just the mounting board, bushings, and springs. Maybe they hit some docks...

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3521 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2006 : 23:24:56

I do not know which bracket is stronger. It may very well be that the Garelick is stronger. But for me, the over-riding factors were 1) ease of installation and if the bolt holes matched, that was a definite plus. 2) Was the mount able to handle the 9.9 4 strokes. Well...my old 2 spring Garhauer worked fine for 12 years with the PO but he used a block and tackle because the 2 springs were not enough to raise the motor. The 2 spring model was rated by CD as for ~60-80LB motors. The 4 spring model was rated for 100-115 lbs. So, my thought was that it would do the job.

The other thing is that I think I mentioned that when I first installed the 4 spring bracket, it was a bit stiff. It would not go into the lowest position. It eventually loosened up. But in trying to get it into the lowest position, I wound up standing on top of the motor cover. The mount was rock solid. That was the motor weight of 100 lbs or so and then my weight is pushing 200LBs. I don't know how that equates to thrust from the motor but after standing on the motor, it kind of gives you the confidence that the bracket is going to the job.

Nice night this evening - in the 50s but then dropped lower. I went out until 730pm. Saw 2 sailboats, one heading in and one came out and then sailed downwind back in. As I came back toward my marina, a small motorboat came by close enough to talk. They had 2 dogs aboard. They were surprised to see me out there - no one else was out at the time ! Motor worked fine in and out of the marina. That makes 7 out of 9 outings the motor worked fine. I am still getting rid of it and thinking about another Honda.

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Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2006 : 08:56:09

Thanks for all the input everyone. I've decided I'm going to buy the Garhauer from CD because of the ease of installation, Larry has a very similar engine and is happy with his, Frank has used both and recommends it over the Garelick, and after reading other threads, it sounds like it will be a good choice.

Dave, yeah I was surprised that Boat US/West Marine had the cheapest price on the Garelick especially since they tend to be more expensive. I used Google's Froogle and couldn't find it cheaper any where else. Here is the link and it is the Garelick 71091: http://www.boatus-store.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=20002& langId=-1& catalogId=20002& productId=82174 for $280.

Larry, I'm envious of your sailing your getting in right now

. I can't wait to sail my boat, hopefully in the next couple weekends I will.

Edited by - Justin on 01/20/2006 08:57:05

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3521 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2006 : 12:05:54

Justin,

The weather has been unusually warm this winter. Today, it is going to hit 61F. I'm going on a business trip starting this Sunday and so i was going to put the winter cover back on today. but...the winds are going to be about 10 mph and at 61F...to tempting...may go sailing and put the cover on afterwards or tomorrow.

Good luck with your motor bracket install. This is a good season to accomplish what you can (mods) and then enjoy the sailing when the warmer weather arrives.

Edited by - on

Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2006 : 08:39:28

Well, I finally got out to my boat for the first time in five weeks. I was hoping to remove the outboard and install the new bracket, but there was a low tide all afternoon and the docks are not floating. The top of the outboard was about 1' below the dock which would have made it very difficult to remove. Hopefully next time I will be able to swap it out with a high tide. Some good news is that I was able to use a hammer to pry the bracket out of the low position notch and pull it up to the highest bracket level. If I had not been able to do that, it would have still been stuck in the lowest position.

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Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2006 : 07:34:37

I finally got my 4 spring Garhauer bracket installed! I read the tide charts a couple weeks ago and saw that this past weekend I would have high tide in the early afternoon which is just what I needed. In my last post I had low tide in the afternoon which had the outboard below the dock. With high tide, the outboard was still a little low and awkward to pickup being the top was only about 1' above the dock, but I got it done. It was not as difficult as I first thought a couple months ago. Originally, I thought it was going to be much more difficult to lift. That was because my old bracket was jammed in the low position and I and others used all our strength we had and could not get the outboard to budge. This had me thinking how on earth am I going to lift this thing off the back if it really weighs this much. Turned out the bracket was jammed, which I was able to free and then I thought about ~115lb shouldn't be that hard.
I just tied off the lines having the motor very close to the dock and was about to try to lift it by myself, but decided I better ask for assistance incase I were to lose my balance and fall in. I also tied a line to the outboard handle to the nearby piling in case it were to fall in. Two of us lifted it off without much difficulty and I laid it on the correct side. I was then able to complete the rest on my own. I tied off the old bracket, went below and unbolted it. It came right off and the new Garhauer fit in the exact same hole locations. I applied plenty of caulk to the holes and bolted it right on. Putting the outboard back on was easier than lifting it off. I just placed it on, tightened the clamps and it was ready to test. Wow, it works so smoothly and takes barely any effort to pull up or push down! It is also sturdier than the original. I can also tilt the motor all the way back in the high position and it does not interfere with the stern rail. Here are a couple pictures of it completed:

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2006 : 10:19:35

I ended up using the lower mounting holes so my Honda would not drag while sailing.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2006 : 10:24:54

Note our tilt adjustments are different as well, mine is in the last hole and yours in in the third hole. See how vertical mine is when down.

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