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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Docklines when sharing a slip

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kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/02/2006 : 09:56:26

This is a real newbie question. I have never had a boat in a slip before...

I am moving my boat from a slip that it had all to itself that was across the river current to a slip that is parallel with the current. I am sharing the slip (potentially, right now it is empty) with another boat, so I can only tie up on one side of my boat. I know how to do spring lines and all that, and I know this is a common arrangement, but I can't help wondering that if the wind comes from the wrong direction for a while, the boat will be rubbing against fenders on the dock constantly. Will that chafe the boat? Do I have anything to worry about here, or do you have any advice for this situation?

The other sailboats tied up in this marina seem to tie their boats a bit loosly to the dock. Many of the boats I looked at yesterday, during a ripping river current, were floating slightly away from the dock without straining their lines. I assume I should do the same thing...

So many things I have to learn.

Kevin Mackenzie
Former Association Secretary and Commodore
"Dogs Allowed"
'06 C250WK #881
and
"Jasmine"
'01 Maine Cat 30 #34

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2006 : 10:30:11

Kevin M,

Where I keep my C-25 the wind and waves rub it against its fenders constantly. There's some (in my opinion very minor) scratching and chafing of the gelcoat at the fenders. It being a 1979 boat, and me being an aesthetically challenged slob, I don't loose any sleep over it. I think it helps some if the fenders are hung from the boat, and not from the dock. There are available cute little soft cloth overcoats for fenders. Look for them wherever fine poodle apparel is sold.

When I first picked up my C-25, it was tied against a concrete seawall in tidal water with significant wave action, and had barnacle encrusted old tires on the seawall for fenders. Now <b><i>that</i></b> was rough on the gelcoat!

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2006 : 10:49:13

I have the same concern because my new slip will be on what I think they called a bulkhead. It's the wall from the grass to the creek. I will only be able to attach lines to one side of the boat and I was concerned about the fender scratching my hull as well. Maybe I should look into those fender covers.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2006 : 11:08:14

I think those cloth fender covers will help, and it would also help to keep the boat well waxed, and perhaps rub a little wax on every couple of months at the place where the fenders rub against the boat.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2006 : 11:54:24

Kevin,

I also share a slip with another boat and I set my docklines a bit looser than normal, but not so much that my boat will wander into my neighbors space. My lines are also set to allow for a 2-3ft tide and to allow the boat to move away from the finger dock.

I have all my fenders attached to the dock and to accommodate the tidal range, I use multiplpe fenders at different heights. In the absense of wind and current, and with the docklines somewhat slack, my boat kind of hovers away from the fenders. If the wind or a wake moves my boat, it has a tendency to gently push up against the fender which then pushes it back away.

In order to prevent abrasion to the hull by the fenders, I clean and wax them at the beginning of the season, and periodically wash them throughout the season to prevent crud from accumulating on them.

Just remember that you don't have to have your boat right tight against the dock, let it have room to roam a bit.

Edited by - dlucier on 02/02/2006 11:56:28

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2006 : 13:30:17

Kevin, I also share a slip with a C-25. I have my fenders attached to my lifelines. My way of thinking was if the boat is going to rock and roll so are the fenders aginst the dock. Have not noticed any gelcoat damage in four years of doing this. If your really concened look into the dock material that has a rub strip that you can attach to the dock. W/M has it, but not sure where in the catalog. I also have a big fender on the other side of the boat mid-ships so either I or my neighbor don't slide into each other when moving in/out of the slip.

Edited by - on

PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2006 : 13:37:08

I had boats on a slough off the Snohomish river where quite a current ran each way depending on the tide. If you adjust your spring lines properly the boat will hang just off the dock. For peace of mind you could install some
old firehose as a rub area on the dock.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2006 : 17:13:25

Up here its a pretty standard thing, I have a piling in between us, but in the old days, we used to have a slip mate and only be able to tie off on one side. (actually, the bow too.) Obviously the spring lines, as you noted will be needed. To keep her from constantly banging fenders we used to have a line that went from either the winch in the cockpit or one of the cleats there directly to the other boat. It keeps your stern and the majority if not all of your dockside boat off the dock. You allow it enough slack to just allow the fenders to touch. It might take some convincing, but when you tell the other owner that if the wind shifts 180 it will benefit him too, its usually an easy sell.

The ettiquette went something like this - you go sailing you leave the line on his boat, ergo, you just disconnect and toss it onto his side (make sure its in the boat and won't foul his prop.) When you come back, you reattach it. If he goes sailing he does the same for you. If your both out, the last guy to leave hooks her back up.

A few frothy beverages and a good relationship also helps - this only works if you both want to do it.

dw

Edited by - on

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2006 : 19:18:30

There are devices that keep the boat off the dock. We used them when I was a kid.

http://www.marinesale.com/marine/moorings.html

I would get these along with the above advice. Your boat is too pretty to risk.

Tom.

Edited by - atgep on 02/02/2006 19:20:20

kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2006 : 21:17:13

Thanks all. Some very good and useful ideas in there. I especially like cooperating with the other boat. Duh, should have thought of that... Right now, there is no other boat, but when one shows up, I'll try that.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2006 : 21:39:44

If there isn't one, take a long line and tie off to his side until you get one.

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Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2006 : 21:51:30

I've seen a lot of people run a long spring line from the head of the dock (from the open side) back to the stern. That line pulls the boat forward against the forward spring on the opposite side, which holds the boat off the dock. (thinking here that your in bow first)

Edited by - Tom Potter on 02/02/2006 21:53:47

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2006 : 09:46:14

Most slips around here at marinas have a pile driven in between the slips at the aft end which differentiate the two slips and a dock cleat in line with the pile. This allows for tieing off the stern and bow to pull the boat away from the finger dock.

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3490 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2006 : 12:50:23

I have dock on one side of the finger slip. My website shows the dock lines but not fully. I always dock stern first into the slip and use a line (the blue one) from the end of the finger slip to the cleat that is just to the rear of the starboard winch. that keeps my motor from banging into the main dock.

The marina operator was talking to me one time near my boat and gave me dock line 101 training. He indicated I should be snugging up the bow and stern lines to the slip because the slip and the main dock are all floating and go up and down with the tide. I also have a line from the stern cleat on the port side to the main dock. I do not always have all the lines quite that snug but I never noticed anything of substance on the sides of my hull from the fenders. The reason for snugging up (and you can do that if both the finger slip and main dock float) is that in case of a storm, it minimizes the boat being tossed around.

Larry

Edited by - on

John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2006 : 22:48:22

When docked at Neebish I have 3 miles of open water to the North. We are located on the shipping channel where ships up to 1000' pass regularly. To be safe at the dock we use flexible stand off poles I designed using pvc tubing filled with expanding foam. They are bolted to the dock through a plate and tube arrangement.

Edited by - John V. on 02/07/2006 10:33:59

kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2006 : 01:48:24

Interesting. What do you have at the boat end of the poles? It looks like the end rubs against the cabin...

Edited by - on

John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2006 : 18:25:53

There is a small 3/1 tackle that allows the boat to move in toward the dock without over bending the poles. The poles keep pushing out which keeps the top of the pole right by the stanchion. When a large wake or a ship's channel surge pushes, the tackle extends which sometimes lets the pole touch the cabin side. It rarely leaves a mark and when it does, it cleans up easily. The alternative is to have the boat lifted up and then smashed against the dock.

The boats that pass are 1000' ore carriers wheighing 60,000 tons. as they go by they take the water down a foot and when they pass they raise it by 2 feet before things settle down. And that's when the obey the 9 mph speed limit.

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kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2006 : 08:32:28

John,

If you ever get time to take a close up picture of the boat end of those poles, I know I would be interested in seeing it, others might as well. The verbal description is not quite making it through my thick skull. It looks like a very good solution to your situation.

I am not sure that I can do somehting like that in my slip, as there is only a finger between me and the next boat, and it is concrete with a wood edge around it, so even a mounting spot would be hard.

But I am still curious how yours works.

Thanks for sharing the picture. For me, I think three large round fenders attached to the dock and three fenders hanging from the boat will be what I start with. We'll see...

Edited by - on

John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2006 : 10:52:48

Kevin,
After I injected the expanding foam into the poles I used a PVC cap on the end. before setting the cap I drilled a hole in the center and bolted a stainless steel eye bolt to the cap. Then glued it in with PVC cement. the SS eye holds the double block and there is a single block at the clip end. When docking I usually leave the pole lines slack with about 4' of play. I bring the boat in and secure with bow, stern and spring lines leaving enough slack for the boat to stand about 2' off the end of the dock. (I have about 9' of water there) Then I tighten up the light lines and the boat is pushed off to its docked position. This leaves everything in a very springy dynamic position. If the boat is pushed toward the dock by a wake or surge, the light lines automatically play out keeping the pole tension constant. I updated my previous post with a photo of the dock as a freighter passes. It is very big and less than 100' away. Incidentially the dock is a 70' steel box girder with 7' oil well casings welded at the end. they are conected to a modular home axel and tires. the deck is cedar cut from the back of my wood lot.
The whole works sits right on the edge of the dropoff and comes out of the water by backhoe at season's end.

Edited by - on

Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 02/13/2006 : 09:48:08

In my sailing book, they show hanging some kind of blanket between the boat hull and the fenders to prevent the fenders from rubbing the hull when touching the dock. Has anyone done this and what kind of fabric do you use? This seems like it might be another way to help protect the finish.

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Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2006 : 13:22:48

Here's an update to an old topic. The weekend before last I picked up a 2x4 and tied it to my fenders. This allows the fenders to remain at rub rail height and use the board to ride against the pilings.

Originally I tied the fenders horizontally to the pilings and let my boat ride against them. I found that the fenders were rubbing my blue hull and lightly scuffing it. For a month or so I just removed the fenders and let it ride against the pilings which have a rubber mounted on them. None of the other boats on the bulkhead are using fenders and my creek is usually so calm that they don't worry about it. I then decided some cheap insurance would be this setup with the 2x4. It provides a nice cushion against the pilings without rubbing much against my hull.
Just thought I'd throw this out there for anyone else in a similar situation.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2006 : 19:46:50

Poodle apparel?

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DanM
Captain

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USA
256 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2006 : 07:53:55

Larger fenders equals more surface area equals less rotation and scuffing. We do not hang them from the lifelines, only from the stanchion bases, cleats, etc. The weight of the fenders on lifelines makes it difficult to open the clamp and causes unnecessary wear at all points. We worry that the fenders could be pulled down hard by waves or a powerboat wake if pinched against the dock, and eventually something will break.
Ditto to the above posts about tying off with springlines and courtesy to your neighbors.

Edited by - on

Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2006 : 08:02:42

Dan, I've noticed how much more difficult it is to close the life line gate in the cockpit. I didn't think about the extra wear, maybe I'll try to improve on this. What do you think about tying the fenders to the grab rail on the cabin roof? I'm afraid that may wear the wood finish. So, I can rub against the blue paint, wear out my lifelines, or wear out the wood finish. Well, maybe I can adjust my lines enough to line my stanchions closer with the pilings to hang the fenders from. I think I will try that.

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3490 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2006 : 12:29:28

I have a small motorboat next to me at my finger slip in a Marina located just off the Potomac River - on the Anacostia River.. We have no slip inbetween. The slip and the dock float. We have approximately a 3 foot tidal difference from the Chesapeake Bay located miles and miles away.

The marina operator indicates it best to snug up the docking lines tight since the slip and boat float up and down with the tide and if there are any storms, etc that is the best way to protect the boat. I have two medium sized fenders that do chafe the sides a bit but not terribly. Maybe a couple of Poliglow touchups at mid-season.

In practice, my boat is not completely snugged up. There is a little play in between which is about 6" if a moderate wind comes from the slip side. Besides the bow and stern lines to the finger slip, I also have another stern line attached to the main dock. (I usually back my boat into the slip.) I also have a line that attaches to the end of the slip and to a cleat near the stern to pull the boat forward so the outboard does not risk hitting the main dock.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2006 : 18:19:05

To save work and time, I hang my fenders from the dock so I don't have to retrieve and stow them when leaving the slip only to redeploy them on my way back in. Hanging fenders from the docks is pretty much a standard operating procedure at my marina.

Edited by - on

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