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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Teak wood finish

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Randolph G. Wilson
1st Mate

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USA
64 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/02/2006 : 15:32:07

I know this subject has been addressed many times, but niow I"M DOING IT! I am strippping my hand grab rails, preparing to refinish them. A good friend recommends using three or four coats of exterior polyurathane. I have read many topics recommending cetol. I would like some expert advice: urathane or cetol?

1. If cetol, what finish - gloss or semi-gloss? How many coats? How often does it require touchup or recoating?

Stripping these handrails is a lot of work, so I want to get the best job possible.

Help!!

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2006 : 16:25:02

Since I haven't used exterior polyurethane on my teak before, I'll let someone who has comment on its performance. As for Cetol, I'm very happy with the longevity of this product. After I stripped and put on the initial coats some years ago, I've only touched it up maybe every other year.

As for what type of Cetol, gloss or semi-gloss, you should use, that is a matter of personal preference.

I chose regular Cetol with its more subdued, satin finish for my exterior teak because to my eye, it blends in better with the natural aging of the rest of the boat.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2006 : 17:22:20

used to be a cetol guy, I've become acquainted with the Waterlox brand through the owner's family at our club and though I haven't used the Marine product on anything major I've had decent success on one or two small things, and parts of my home as well. Other boats the use it in our marina are absolutely gorgeous. The next boat or the next major Teak job is going to be a Waterlox job.

Incidently, Waterlox is one of the Companies Sponsoring our National.

The Cetol has been on for about 3 years now and it looks rather nice and has help up well. (we only coated our exterior teak with cetol.) The interior stuff is still just teak oil...

Duane

Edited by - Champipple on 02/02/2006 17:23:41

ct95949
Captain

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Aruba
300 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2006 : 18:32:14

When I did my exterior teak last winter I used an idea I found in Sailing magazine.Prep as usual,apply two coats of epoxy(I used West 207 hardener for clear coating wood),then two coats Cetol light,then two coats of Cetol gloss.The epoxy brushes on really easy and seals the wood from moisture and bleeding.The Cetol is needed to protect the epoxy from UV degradation and adds some warmth and gloss.I used this method on my hatch boards,the rest had Cetol only and is somewhat porous.
Some people object to a high gloss finish as being to 'plastic' but I wanted my teak sealed and it is called brightwork right? If you have some epoxy anyway you might try it on a small piece-I think you'll be happy

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2006 : 19:43:20

Craig and Lorri,

I'm sure your Cetol over WEST looks great, and your wood is well sealed now. However, let me provide a cautionary tale. I did just that on a prevous boat's exterior teak. About the time it was due for refinishing, I got hurt and couldn't do it in time. Once the sunlight got past the Cetol to the epoxy, things took a sudden turn for the worse. The epoxy turned opaque mustard yellow, and started delaminating from the wood. Once this deterioration got started, it progressed rapidly.

By the time I could get to it, touch up wasn't an option. I was faced with stripping the whole ugly mess down to bare teak. What a nightmare! The areas of epoxy which had not fully delaminated put up a horrible fight. Chemical strippers were useless against it. It ignored sandpaper. What finally worked was chemical strippers to remove everything down to the epoxy. Then a propane torch combined with a razor sharp scraper (1/2" wide X-acto chisel blade) and saintly patience, followed by laborious sanding to remove the last stuborn patches of epoxy, and repair the burns from over enthusiastic application of the torch.

Never Again!!!

I think it would be less work to sew up a Sunbrella cover for all the exterior wood, than it was to redo that mess.

On my boat, I plan to stick with various flavors of Cetol until something better has a proven track record, and is as widely accepted by the boating community as Cetol has become.

But do let us know how yours holds up.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2006 : 19:55:54

Hi Craig, your woodwork looks great. I was going to redo mine over the winter but it might have to wait until next year. What type of hooks do you have on the bulkhead next to your compus? I need a couple but don't know what to use. Cheers.

Edited by - on

ct95949
Captain

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Aruba
300 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2006 : 11:22:34

Geez Leon thanks for ruining my day

.I can imagine how hard it would be to get epoxy off the hand rails,maybe it's best I only put it on the hatch boards.It sounds like if you let the Cetol break down the epoxy is quick to follow.Why can't they make that stuff hold up to UV rays? Thanks for the heads up

Dennis-The plastic stick-on line hangers I got from West Marine,they should be in the catalog.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2006 : 12:20:13

Getting back to polyurethane... It looks great at first, but if it cracks or peels a little, you essentially have to remove it all and start over. Because it's not permeable, the oils in the teak can push it up and cause it to peel. Cetol is permeable, specifically designed for teak applications. When it wears (which it does), you can sand it lightly and overcoat it or just touch it up. That's what sailors like best about it--the ease of maintenance.

Light or regular, gloss or semi... Those are matters of taste. I believe Cetol recommends that you only use gloss as the top-coat, and semi-gloss for the coats building up to that. I like the subtler look of the semi-gloss, and I like that it hides imperfections and drips better.

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Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2006 : 12:25:55

If you didn't see my post in the general forum, I posted a earlier about West Marine's Wood-Pro finish I used. Here's the link with photos: http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11408
It's supposed to be the equivalent of Cetol and I'm happy with the results. I put on 4 coats, so it should last a while.

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2006 : 12:35:52

Hi Craig and Lorri,

Sorry to be such a Cassandra about the epoxy over brightwork.

Better you know it now, than find out the way I did. And it seemed like such a good idea at the time...

I've read of others who were still satisfied with the treatment. However, they were quick to point out that they touch up or renew the Cetol/varnish/whatever UV coating religeously. Since your epoxy treatment is limited to the companionway wash boards, maybe this would be a good time to make up a cover for that area. I've seen some that use the same snaps as the pop-top tent, and cover most, or all, of the exterior teak. With a bit of planning, something similar can be used as a windbreaker curtain for the companionway opening when sailing on slightly chilly days. Easier to pass through than the boards, but stops most light wind and rain.

And yes, whoever first invents an affordable, clear, UV-proof epoxy will have my gratitude, and deserves to get rich off it.

-- Leon Sisson

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2006 : 13:08:41

And remember Randolf, many of use think Cetol is the devil and belive teak oil is the only salvation.

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At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2006 : 14:21:08

Cetol is the way to go. Clean the teak (anyway you want to) put on three coats of Cetol and you are good for at least two years. Frank mentioned teak oil...in my part of the country teak oil is fine, if you don't mind putting it on every month.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2006 : 10:01:00

Here's a couple of comments from left field:

West epoxy produces an amine "blush" which interferes with the bond of anything put on it if not properly removed.

In case you are considering a product called "Bristol Finish", I would reconsider. When it cracks, as it will, it is a pain to work with. I'll never use it again.

I love the look of natural teak, but hopefully on my next sailboat it won't have any exterior teak, but lots of interior teak.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2006 : 14:27:37

Cetol vote here.

Edited by - on

IndyJim
Navigator

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USA
130 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2006 : 21:33:53

I feel like I'm just piling on here but I just completed the winter teak overhaul myself. All the exterior (except the combing boxes) came off and got 4-5 coats of Cetol. This was my first time using Cetol. Duane, I guess I came along too late to learn about Waterlox. Over the past 10 years, I tried several other so called miracle coatings with very little success.
Now when I run into other skippers I say "My name is Jim and I'm a Cetol-a-holic". I've read all the opposing opinions and respect them, I just got tired of oiling or refinishing, and then fixing other "reccomended" finishes after a year of exposure. I don't mind working on the brightwork during the off season but would rather sail than do teak maintenance in the summer. Is there a cure being a Cetol-a-holic? Thanks for all the great advice skippers

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bbriner
Captain

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349 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2006 : 13:58:46

I'm with Frank on this one... FWIW I'll throw my hat into the teak oil ring. All the other oils I tried did indeed need to be reapplied after about a month; except TeaQua.

TeaQua (http://www.teaqua.com) goes on easy - it took me about 2hrs to apply 2 coats - and after 6 months is still looking great. If you are inclined towards oil you have to give Teaqua a try!!

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John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2006 : 20:48:22

I've been using epoxy on exterior teak and other woods but never un cut. It works well as a base sealer when cut with xylene or acetone. The thinned mixture soakes deep into the unfinished wood and leaves a surface rough enough to take and hold the varnish. This approach is just one among many and is probably un needed with teak. I do find it works great when working with non traditional woods.

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clayC
Navigator

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USA
207 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2006 : 11:14:28

last winter I compleatly redone all The teak on Kamalla, Cetol on the outside, varnish on the inside, at least 5 coats on every thing. My advice is to dedicate one pair of jeans for all varnish work. It seems I have a spot or two on every pair I own. And that stuff really holds up in the wash. It is kinda interesting to see how much they have faded, the varnish spot maintains the color of my paints the day I varnished!

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RickStevens
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2006 : 12:47:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by clayC
It is kinda interesting to see how much they have faded, the varnish spot maintains the color of my paints the day I varnished!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Well - at least we know it lasts.

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Steve Siefken
1st Mate

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USA
81 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2006 : 21:10:38

clayC,

I have been thinking about varnishing the inside. Do you have pictures?

Thanks!

Edited by - on

clayC
Navigator

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USA
207 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2006 : 23:53:31

I will take a couple tomorrow and see if I can post them

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britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2006 : 06:42:06

varnishing the insides may make them too stiff to wear!

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