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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

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Fantasy II
1st Mate

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USA
80 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/07/2006 : 17:23:14

I just had my "new" 1981 C25 (TR FK) hauled out for a bottom job, and I was absolutely AMAZED at the condition of the hull and keel! Not a sign of blistering anywhere, on the old iron keel OR the hull! In the past, we have owned two other C25's and always had a problem with hull blistering and terrible keel rusting! We kept those other boats in salt water, and this one has always been in fresh water. Does that really make such a difference, or is the reason something else? I am blown away that a 25-year-old hull is in such great condition (and of course, very pleased, but curious).

Bill
Stockton CA
'81 Cat 25 TR FK
"Fantasy II"
'88 Cat 27 SR FK "Deja Vu

Edited by - Fantasy II on 02/07/2006 17:25:15

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2006 : 21:36:41

As time went on, the industry improved the resins... but fresh water has a greater tendency to cause blisters than salt water--fresh permeates more easily. A P.O. might have put a good barrier coat on under the bottom paint. I suspect the P.O. did something good to protect the keel--just about every one I've seen has shown rust stains (at least) and pitting, but I see mosty salt water boats. Fresh water is probably better for the iron keel if worse for the fiberglass.

Now go find some wood to knock on for a few hours!

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2006 : 07:14:06

I bought my C25 new in 1981 and owned it until last year, and only had one small blister on the hull. I kept it in fresh water. Although blisters can happen on any fiberglass boat, they were especially a problem with boats built during the period from about 1983-4 to 1989, and the problem wasn't just Catalina's. It was industry wide. Hull blisters can be corrected by painting it with a barrier coat, such as Interlux 2000. Keel rust wasn't much of a problem on my boat, but every year some of the keel fairing compound developed a couple of big blisters that I had to chisel out and re-fair. I suspect there was more than one reason why the keel had those problems. I think part of it was because the keel accumulated a thick layer of old anti-fouling paint through the years, and the old paint cracked and peeled. I stripped off all the old bottom paint, and think that must have helped. Also, if you looked at the big blisters, they appeared to be hollow, which suggested that they were caused by gas forming under the fairing compound. It seemed to me that a possible cause of that was electrolysis around the docks, so I installed a zink anode on the keel. Whenever I had to make a repair that went down to the bare iron, I coated it with a coal tar epoxy, like Z Tar. Then I faired the keel and coated the whole thing with barrier coat paint. At the end of the next season, which was the last year before I sold the boat, there was only one very small blemish on the keel, so I think I was getting pretty close to solving the problem.

If you can locate the previous owner, you should ask him what he did to the keel to preserve it. It sounds like he found the solution.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2006 : 11:33:18

My new 1989 cat 25 bought in september 05, I had it pressure washed in October/Novemeber at rick Steven's Washington Sailing Marina. I had about 20 quarter sized blisters on the port side andabout same number on the starboard side. they were mostly located toward the bow. the boat has been in fresh water for at least the past 4 years and then was on the Chesapeake Bay.

The guys at the marina looked over the whole hull with me. the assessment was that although the previous owner had not painted the bottom in 4 years (pressure washed annually), the ablative paint was wearing fine and the boat would be ready for a fresh coat this summer. The wing keel was in perfect shape. The marina personnel indicated that as far as the blisters go, they recommended just keeping an eye on them for now and not to do anything unless they grew in size. They said that the blisters could have been in their present condition for many years and may remain so for another 5 years or more and that messing with them at the present stage may be more trouble than it is worth dealing with right now. They also recommended staying with an ablative paint and suggested a gallon of a West Marine product which I wrote down but name is at home - Think it was CPR or something like that. It was pretty expensive. It was West Marine's top of the line ablative paint.

Any opinions regarding quarter sized blisters or the recommended ablative paint ?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2006 : 12:24:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OLarryR
 Any opinions regarding quarter sized blisters or the recommended ablative paint ?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It could be heartening that the people who could profit from repairing your blisters are recommending not to worry about them... I'd say "quarter size" is about the limit, tho...

I've used West's CPP+ ablative and been pleased. I think I was told it was a Petit paint, while some other West paints are Interlux. For some $50/gallon less than a similar Interlux paint, I figured it'd do OK, and it did.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 02/09/2006 20:05:09

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2006 : 20:05:24

Luckily for me, I haven't experienced a single blister on my '83 despite the fact that conventional wisdom has it that hulls with colored gelcoat are more succeptable.

I'd like to second what Dave said about the West Marine ablaitive paint. I've used Interlux 33 and changed to 44 when tin based paints were banned. The Interlux did a great job for me for quite a few years but one day I saw the West Marine CPR (not +) stuff on sale and couldn't resist trying it for the price.

It's worked as well for me as the interlux in the NYC area.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2006 : 07:36:29

Larry, I am really surprised you have any blisters, The 89 had a special barrier coat from the factory that came with specific instructions to NEVER sand it. My 89 shone like a mirror after I powerwashed all the old paint off, the special grey layer was ovious, no blisters. I put VC17 on so I will never sand.

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2006 : 11:45:26

The best ablative paint I've ever used West's CPP. The bulk of the paint is asleep at the bottom of the can and it takes a considerable amount of mechanical stirring to get everything in solution. I put on four coates of it four years ago and it looks like I'll get at least one more season out of it.. the best of the best..also the least expensive.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT # 3936 Patchogue, N.Y.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2006 : 12:26:48

West Marine ebay CPP+
[url="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7218356622"]CPP[/url]

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 02/09/2006 20:14:51

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2006 : 18:29:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 West Marine ebay CPP+
[url="http://cgi.ebay.com/Sea-Fit-CPP-Plus-Ablative-Antifouling-Paint-5437009_W0QQitemZ7216614690QQcategoryZ384QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem"]CPP[/url]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

OOPS!!! You're right Frank. I checked my garage for the leftover can from last season and the paint I've been using is, in fact, West Marine CPP+.

Val's right though, you have to stir the dickens out of that paint before applying it, but for the price, it can't be beat. Not a single barnacle.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2006 : 20:15:38

Did you see that it is a link to an Ebay auction? Cheap!!!!

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2006 : 21:37:13

Frank,

I'll see if any of the blisters look bigger when it comes time to paint. Not looking forward to repairing them right now and so may follow the marina guy's recommendation to leave them alone unless they get bigger. (They are not over the entire bottom - seem mostly in an area on both sides closer to the bow - about 20 on each side.)

As far as the paint, looking at the West Marine catalog, I think the marina recommended I get the PCA paint from West Marine and then either paint it myself or they would do it. The PCA is more expensive compared to the CPP Plus. He indicated one gallon is enough. How many coats can you get out of a gallon ? 1 coat ?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2006 : 07:17:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OLarryR
 How many coats can you get out of a gallon ? 1 coat ?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I use about 3/4 gallon per coat. Some years I just touch up areas where the pressure-washing lifted some paint--last year's leftovers are sufficient. PCA has Petit's anti-slime additive--if your yard guys think that's worth it, then it probably is. (At haul-out, they see the boats that have it and that don't.)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 02/10/2006 07:28:24

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2006 : 13:58:39

LUCKY...LUCKY...LUCKY,

You don't get to paint your own boat in New York ( DEC frowns on it) and there is no way the yard will mix CPP properly. I'm prepared to haul the boat home to get a proper bottom job.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT # 3936 Patchogue, N.Y.

Edited by - on

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2006 : 18:36:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tinob
 LUCKY...LUCKY...LUCKY,

You don't get to paint your own boat in New York ( DEC frowns on it) and there is no way the yard will mix CPP properly. I'm prepared to haul the boat home to get a proper bottom job.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT # 3936 Patchogue, N.Y.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Val; is this frowning coming directly from the D.E.C., something the yard told you, or are there actually some regs involved?

I remember back in the day when none of the yards allowed us to "paint below the waterline" and this was strictly stated in their contracts (and enforced with an iron fist). This was later found to be illegal and in restraint of trade so the clauses were dropped by the yards.

There are hundreds of us at my yard in NYC and almost everyone paints their own bottoms.

Same is true at my old yard which also slips several hundred vessels.

Unless there are some cut and dry regs against it, I'm doing my own bottom painting and the D.E.C. can "frown" all they want.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2006 : 07:24:37

In the marinas around Wash, DC/Potomac River, you can work on your own boat but because of environmental concerns with the river, there are restrictions. For example, you are not supposed to use power tools on any exterior work while boat is in the river. I do not know the exact wording of the rule but it is basically to minimize anything going into the river. Those working on their boat while on land near the river, some marinas have the requirement that if you are using power tools (ie to sand the bottom), the power tool has to have a vacuum attachment to it and the dust/debris collected.

Edited by - on

DGuinn
Deckhand

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15 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2006 : 10:30:59

I bought my 89, #5904, in Nov 2004. It had been in saltwater and then in fresh for most of it's 15 years. It has the special silver barrier coat. It also had at least 100 dime sized blisters. I stripped good bottom paint w/ interlux stripper, sanded w/ 80 grit, applied 5 coats of interprotect 2000E and 3 coats of VC17. I will be very interested to see how it looks when it comes out of the water later this spring.
I am hoping for the best!

Edited by - on

bbriner
Captain

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349 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2006 : 12:17:03

Larry - I got two coats out of one gallon of Pettit Trinidad SR - just barely though. Good thing too.. it was $170/gallon.

DGuinn - I'm anxious to hear about your (boat's) bottom!! It will be two years this August since I painted Wind Dancer so I will be pulling her out this fall. At that time I found a number of 'pimples' and larger blisters, probably 1/4" or less in size so I didn't do anything other than sand and repaint. I am curious to see what I find.

Edited by - on

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