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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Electrical Deck Fitting

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John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/14/2002 : 17:13:13

The deck fitting for the mast lights is not making good contact. By wiggling the wire I can get all the mast lights to work. I do NOT want to replace the female fitting in the deck but would like to replace just the male end that attaches to the wires in the mast. Does anyone know of a fitting that is compatible? Mine is metal (bronze?) and has a ring that screws down to hold the two pieces together.
Thanks

[url="http://www.peregrinefund.org/"]<img src="http://www.peregrinefund.org/images/intro_mid_image.GIF" border=0>[/url]
 John G- "PEREGRINE" C25-#4762 FK

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2002 : 19:55:43

Hey there John G,
I had the same problem on OJ.
I used some emery cloth to remove most of the corrosion off the male contact pins and something like a dental pick to scratch the female contacts, then added a small amount of vasiline.
If that doesn't work, check the plugs made by Perko, Aqua Signal, Cole Horsee or even the West Marine brand.
Good luck.

Edited by - on

John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2002 : 20:12:28

Thanks OJ,
I did sand and pick but the problem is where the wires attach to the male fitting. The little screws that crimp down on the wires are so corroded they won’t budge even after a soaking in liquid wrench. So I’m looking for a similar male part that will screw onto the one in the deck.

[url="http://www.peregrinefund.org/"]<img src="http://www.peregrinefund.org/images/intro_mid_image.GIF" border=0>[/url]
 John G- "PEREGRINE" C25-#4762 FK

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LOREN SOUERS
Navigator

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USA
100 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2002 : 20:13:20

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Hey there John G,
I had the same problem on OJ.
I used some emery cloth to remove most of the corrosion off the male contact pins and something like a dental pick to scratch the female contacts, then added a small amount of vasiline.
If that doesn't work, check the plugs made by Perko, Aqua Signal, Cole Horsee or even the West Marine brand.
Good luck.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I am speachless!

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2002 : 20:28:08

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

I am speachless!

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Well Loren, since I don't know you very well I don't know if that's a good thing or not <img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle> !

Steve Madsen
#2428
OJ(Ode to Joy)

[url="http://catalina25-250.org/photo0.htm/"]<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/photo/ode075.jpg" border=0>[/url]

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2002 : 20:34:20

Does it look like this?
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?prmenbr=201& prrfnbr=7907& outlet=

Here is the Perko catalog link.

http://www.perko.com/cat_frames.html

Edited by - dlucier on 05/14/2002 20:57:47

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John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2002 : 21:59:34

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Does it look like this?
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?prmenbr=201& prrfnbr=7907& outlet=
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
 dlucier-Yes it does look like the West Marine fitting. Thank you.
I do wish I could figure out if it will fit the existing fitting.
Hmmm What to do Wack-a-doo!

Edited by - john g- on 05/14/2002 22:02:51

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2002 : 22:49:49

John - I have the same problem and am replacing the whole fitting - the wires were so corroded under the female piece that as soon as I lifted it to inspect underneath they parted. Now I'm biting the bullet and replacing all the mast wiring, installing a new steaming light and running new wire from deck back to panel.
BTW - I used to clean the female contacts by wrapping a tiny sliver of sandpaper around a toothpick and twist it in the hole - worked well but didn't do a thing for the "hidden" contacts!
Derek

Edited by - on

mroettersr
Navigator

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USA
148 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2002 : 00:03:05

I just replaced the male and female deck fittings on my '83. The hardest part was cleaning up the mess from some PO. Putting on the new fittings was easy. I used a West Marine four prong plug and socket leaving one prong blank. The worst part of this kind of fix could be wires that are badly corroded at and back from the connections. Luckely, my wires were clean. (A friend with a powerboat had a five foot section of wire where the conductor was virtually dust from end to end.)

Mike Roetter
'83 #3568 SK SR

Edited by - on

Bristle
Admiral

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USA
834 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2002 : 00:07:16

After cleaning the contacts (male and female), a little di-electric silicone or lithium grease is a good way to prevent future corosion and enhance the connections.

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 SR-FK #5032 "Passage" in CT

Edited by - on

John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2002 : 09:28:50

Derek & Mike Roetter,
Could have/buy your old fittings if you still have them? I really only need the male end. Maybe I can salvage the parts I need. Let me know here or use the e-mail on my profile.
Thanks

[url="http://www.peregrinefund.org/"]<img src="http://www.peregrinefund.org/images/intro_mid_image.GIF" border=0>[/url]
 John G- "PEREGRINE" C25-#4762 FK

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aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2002 : 10:05:15

I had this same problem last year. Catalina Diret has the correct plug. Actual replacement of the female end was tricky because Catalina skimped on the mast wire. If your careful and have samll fingers or are good with aa needle nose pliers, it can be done. My mast lights haven'tworked this well since the boat was new.

Al Eckhart
Gallivant #5801

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2002 : 12:03:32

John - mine went into the round file! The female was so corroded inside that I had to pound on the black center with a screwdriver and hammer to get it apart. The male end wouldn't budge either and I just cut that off! The deck wires were also so corroded that there is not enough to connect new wiring.
Derek

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Phredde
Navigator

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125 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2002 : 17:52:55

I share your pain! After spending considerable $$$ and time on the lights and wiring in the mast, I thought I could salvage the old 3 pin connector, but noooo. It broke up faster than a bad marriage.

So I ordered the 4 pin connector from CD. And no, the male from the one in the picture posted here won't work with the female from the other. Isn't that just the way of the world?

A few more hours with my large hands and the tiny pieces, and I've just about got it all together, but have now lost connectivity on one of the wires on the female side of the equation. Of course!

I DO NOT want to drill another hole in my deck. What to do? I think drilling straight down throught the existing hole will put me in the bulkhead like someone else warned.

Are all of these $$$, hours, and frustration really worth a couple of silly lights? I may need to stay in the dock at night or get by with a handheld spotlight or something.

Any ideas????

Phredde
Catalina 25
San Francisco

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2002 : 19:28:52

Phredde - I thought about just staying in the slip at night too! But, unfortunately, we have a Moonlight Regatta in the Fall and the racing instructions insist upon running lights operative thru'out the race...
Ah me!
Derek

Edited by - on

Mike Vaccaro
1st Mate

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77 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2002 : 20:13:16

Phredde,

Have recently replaced all of the wiring and connectors on our '84, and made a post a couple of weeks back...but just to reiterate, the catalina wiring is actually molded into the deck, so the pigtails available to work with when you remove the female deck plug are extremely limited. I was able to replace the fitting once, but a second time (after it was stepped on), there wasn't sufficient wire available.

We decided to make a permanent fix that would be easy to maintain in the future, since lowering the mast to work on electrical components is not on my list of favorite things to do. Here's what we did: We replaced all of the original catalina wiring with tinned copper, utlizing a four-strand wire available by the foot from West Marine. We ran the new wire adjacent to the top of the head side of the cabin bulkhead (the originals are moulded into the glass above the bulkhead itself and cannot be removed). After running the wire, we then drilled straight up through the deck immediately forward of the bulkhead. This hole (drilled originally with a 12" #30 [1/8th inch] bit, then serves as a reference for the new mounting location on deck. This will not line up with the original mounting flange moulded into the deck.

I then removed the old female end, and carefully ground off the old fiberglass flange using an electric die grinder, but any sanding wheel will work. If you work carefully, it is possible to remove the old moulding flush with the surrounding deck without damaging the adjacent area. There is no need to remove the old wiring, simply sand down until the entire area is flush. I built a small (3" x 5") stayboard mount (this is a plastic available at marine stores that can be worked with conventional wood-working tools), 1/4" thick. The exact thickness does not matter, since the entire purpose of the stayboard is to cover the old, now ground-off flange and hole/wiring.

Temporarily mount the stayboard to the deck with four corner screws and then drill the reference hole up from below. The reference hole may then be drilled out to 1/2" diameter. This 1/2" hole allows easy through-deck access for future maintenance and is the same dimension as the inside of the metal female deck fitting. Check your fitting before final drilling, so that you can match the dimension, if it's a bit different. The stayboard may then be sealed and mounted to the deck with the four corner screws. You now have a flat, easily accessed location for your new deck fitting.

After mounting the fitting, you can seal your access hole with silicone, which is easily removable for future maintenance (just yank the wires through the hole, and they'll pull the plug with them). We made a small loop in the wire (which I tucked up under the hull/deck joint area behind the head) that allows the wire to be lengthened for future maintenance.

When you assemble the fitting, utlize dielectric silicone or some type of corrosion preventative (corrosion X, Boeing T-9, etc.). The former has the advantage of near permanence, but is a bit more difficult to remove if you need to do maintenance, and the latter work great, but require occasional re-application.

Since rewiring the mast and cabin as well as replacing the fittings, we've had no problems save for the occasional burned out bulb (we now change all bulbs, regardless of age, every time the mast comes down, which ain't often!). If you completely re-wire and rebuild these circuits, you'll find that the deck fitting will be the weakest link, and do to the relatively poor quality of their construction they are prone to corrosion and failure. This fitting will probably require future replacement--most likely because it got stepped on and lost the battle.

Wow, guess that was the long answer. Hope it helps.

Cheers,

Mike Vaccaro on the Swoose
84 TR/SK #4707

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2002 : 21:43:54

Mike - that post is of immeasurable help to me. Many thanks!
Where exactly did you run the wire from the head compartment back to the panel? I'm considering going down the head bulkhead and thence into the port couch locker, under the galley into the port cockpit locker and to the panel. Did you have a better way?
Derek on "This Side Up"

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mroettersr
Navigator

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USA
148 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2002 : 00:22:28

John - The male end was missing altogether and I pitched the female plug which a PO had drilled out. The wires were re-run as well along the ceiling/wall of the head so there was plenty of wire to work with. A PO had successfully run the new wires to the raised plug base so it could be used for the new plug socket with no additional work. Sorry I don't have the parts to send you.

Mike Roetter
'83 #3568

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Bob Ritner
Deckhand

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7 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2002 : 00:39:35

I re-wired from the female fitting back to the electrical panel a month ago. The cleanest way I found to run the wire is as follows:

1. Remove the female deck fitting.

2. Cut the wires and remove them from the head bulkhead back to the panel.

3. Drill a 1/4 inch hole through the forward portion of the existing deck hole. This will place the new hole just above the nalgahide bead at bulkhead-deck joint.

4. Pull new wires through the existing wire harness in the cabin by the hull-deck joint. There is a gap at the bulkhead just large enough to slip the three wires through to the head side.

5. Using a flathead screw driver, carefully shove the new wires one by one into the gap between the top of the head bulkhead and deck (this is the gap that the nalgahide bead conceals)all the way to the new hole that was drilled above the bead at the existing fitting hole.

6.Pull the wires through, attach to the old or new female deck fitting and....presto.... a clean, concealed wire installation using the existing deck hole.

7. Fill deck hole with plenty of sealant prior to fastening female deck fitting to deck.

BTW...... I pulled on the existing bulkhead portion of the wires until I was blue in the face, not realizing they were formed into the deck.

Edited by - on

Mike Vaccaro
1st Mate

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77 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2002 : 08:13:24

Derek,

Like Rob's post says, just come down the head bulkhead and run it with the existing harness under the hull/deck joint. If you can't slip the new wires around the bulkhead, you can drill a hole in the corner allowing access. Nylon zip ties will tidy up the harness and prevent it from sagging in an unsightly manner. I removed the old, unused wires, but this isn't necessary--and if you're a bit unsure about which ones to cut, don't! The bow light and v-berth lights are also portions of this harness.

Cheers,

Mike Vaccaro on the "Swoose"
84 TR/SK #4707

Edited by - on

IndyJim
Navigator

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USA
130 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2002 : 01:22:14

Well skippers, I did it last weekend! I had read all your comments and suggestions on the thread and did the deed! I bought some of that 4 wire cable and a 4 prong deck plug at West Marine and replaced all that 17 year old original wiring. And I was able to run the wire into the original plug hole on deck by drilling a diagonal hole in the head ceiling toward the bulkhead. Re-seal that puppy and tin the wires before connecting and voila!

I have lights and no leaks. Isn't that considered a success in the sailing world?

I won't mention how much fun it was to run the wire under the port setee back to the electrical panel but its done and what's even better is.... it works! I have both a anchor and a steaming light. I even have a spare wire that I can use if I decide to put a foredeck light up there!

I owe everyone who offered their two cents and re-wiring experiences on here. I could have screwed it up real good without all the knowledge I gained on here.

Thanks to all!

Jim
"Itza Dew Sea"
'84 SK/TR #4525

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