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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Which trailer/which keel should I go for?

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Graham K
Deckhand

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USA
2 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/25/2006 : 22:14:07

I am currently searching for a C25 as my next boat. I have determined that I need to have a trailer, as it is about $1500 per year to have my local sailboat shop splash it in the spring and pull it in the fall. I will be sailing on Brookville Lake in Indiana. I have seen 2 different kinds of trailers, those with tons of rollers, i guess these are called Easy-Loaders, and others that look like trailers with boat stands w/ pads welded to the trailer. I know the easy loader types are fine for ramp launching, but how about the latter? The lake does have a crane that i could use, but I am thinking of trying to avoid that. So, take these two types of trailers and throw in a fin or a swing, and I am not sure which way to go. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Graham in Indiana

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2006 : 22:42:35

Don't forget there are also wing keels. I'll let others comment on the trailers. The late model wings are usually considered the best boats. Avoid a fin if you plan to trailer launch more than once per year.

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2006 : 22:43:53

By the way, here's a nice little photo journal on rigging and launching a 89 wing

http://www.indiscipline.org/cat25/launch.html

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2006 : 07:34:42

I had a roller type of trailer for my fin keel C25, and launched it (very carefully) from the trailer without a tongue extension, and had the hoist lift it out in the fall. The last time I was at Brookville Lake, the cost for the hoist was $35., which is very cheap. I would have also used it to launch, except I never had the foresight to call and schedule a hoist time in advance.

Theoretically, you can launch from a bunk type trailer, but in reality, you'll never find a ramp deep enough. To launch from a roller type trailer, you should have a tongue extension. A tow vehicle with 4WD is also a big help. If you don't have a tongue extension, you have to launch very carefully. If you don't get the trailer in deep enough, the boat can lift the rear wheels of the tow vehicle off the ground as it comes off the trailer, and the tow vehicle might slide into the lake. If you get it in too deep, the tow vehicle's rear wheels might lose traction on the wet, slimy pavement. If you see the whole rig sliding down the ramp towards the lake just once, it makes that $35. look like the best deal ever!

As between the fin, swing or wing keels, I would suggest you buy the one in the best overall condition you can find for the best price. They all sail well, and, IMHO, condition trumps keel type. Overall, the fin and swing perform almost equally well. The wing doesn't point quite as close to the wind, but generally, they all do well. If you use the hoist to launch, you eliminate "ease of launching" as a factor in choosing which keel to buy.

Brookville Lake is a nice place to sail. Be sure you join the Brookville Lake Sailing Association. They sponsor all kinds of family events through the sailing season, as well as in the off-season, and they hold races as well. You can find them on the web by clicking on the following hyperlink: http://blsa.us

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2006 : 08:59:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Graham K
 ...I have determined that I need to have a trailer, as it is about $1500 per year to have my local sailboat shop splash it in the spring and pull it in the fall...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

$1,500.00 for haulout and winter storage!

At my marina, $1,500.00 would cover a 50ft boat with an 18ft beam!

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2006 : 09:03:34

Does 1500 include the girls with the beer cart and the snack trays in the off season?

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lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2006 : 11:27:25

We have a Catalina 270 at Folsom Lake on a custom gooseneck trailer, and the owner ramp-launches sucessfully at least twice a year. We don't have any kind of hoist or travel lift, so the ramp is the only choise. This trailer uses 8 pads on adjustable stands. The point is that whether your trailer uses rollers, bunks, or pads, the primary consideration for ramp launching a sailboat with a deep keep is, how steep is your local ramp? Folsom Lake's ramps are 15%, the standard grade recommended by the California Department of Boating and Waterways. We have a several Santana 20's here in dry storage, and they have to ramp launch every race day. The Santana 20 has a very deep fin keel, and sits almost as high on it's trailer as a Catalina 25 FK. Even if your trailer doesn't have a tongue extension, you can still ramp launch by backing the trailer down on a length of heavy duty chain, if the trailer tongue is equipped with a launch wheel for the purpose. This procedure is best done with at least one helper to set and remove chock blocks on the trailer wheels so that the tow vehicle driver can stay behind th3e wheel and keep the brakes applied. The process consists of:
1. backing the trailer down to within a few feet of the water.
2. Chock the trailer wheels and uncouple the trailer
3. Attach the chain to the trailer tongue and truck hitch
4. Move the tow vehicle up the ramp until the chain draws the boat up enough to pull the wheel chocks,
5. Back down until the boat floats off the trailer
6. Pull the trailer out to the waters edge, chock the wheels, remove the chain and remount the trailer as usual, then go park.
This procedure is somewhat more time consuming than a regular launch and should only be used early in the morning on weekends, or on a weekday when there is not a long line of powerboaters waiting to use the ramp.

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2006 : 12:11:49

Larry that 27 launch process sounds very similar to my [url="http://webpages.charter.net/potterhouse/my%20web/page12.html"]Launch[/url]. Although its a 250 WK the principles are the same.

Edited by - Tom Potter on 03/26/2006 12:13:17

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2006 : 15:42:40

IMHO: If you're in freshwater, a swing keel with the 'factory' EZ-Loader or Trailrite will do just fine.

Easy to trailer, easy to launch, good performers. Get set up for trailering and you can explore all sorts of venues. They are also the most common and economical C25 you can find.

Roller or bunk? Take your pick, they both work just fine. I do think the roller might be a little easier to launch in 'marginal' ramp conditions... but that's an untested theory. Due to the shape of the hull, you 'float' a C25 on and off the trailer rather than pull it on like a powerboat.

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cks
Navigator

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126 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2006 : 11:57:22

If i may ask, since my winter storage bill is closer to 1750 (no beer, snacks, or girls included), where can i find a trailer for my c25? i have a fixed keel.

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southern cross
Navigator

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USA
123 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2006 : 12:06:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cks
 If i may ask, since my winter storage bill is closer to 1750 (no beer, snacks, or girls included), where can i find a trailer for my c25? i have a fixed keel.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I don't know about your part of the country, but trailors are hard to come by in my neck of the woods (charlotte, nc). There are some out but they are going to cost youas much or a little more than a years fee where you are. Ask Frank Hopper, he has two.

Puravida, Zach

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Scooter
Navigator

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USA
228 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2006 : 07:46:16

I have a wing and I bought a new trailer with pads. If I had it to do over I would get rollers. I have to drive past 3 other ramps to launch. The waters are shallow in Eastern NC and it's hard to find a ramp with deep enough water anyway but...

Here's some of the issues I have with the deep ramp I do have access to:
1. It's almost too deep to fast. It falls off quickly and in order to float the boat I have to put it so far in that it can actually float the trailer. The wing catched on the underside of the "side" pads that are designed to keep the keel centered on the trailer. I have to first float the boat, unhook the pad-eye, then move the trailer forward enough to float the boat back, then move the trailer forward and keep doing that (about 2-3 times) until the boat is clear of the trailer. I have to reverse this when loading. Once you have the hang of it it's not that big a deal though.

2. My pads were "shaped" to the hull. In other words, they bend to fit the shape of the outside of the hull and that creates a "pocket" for the boat to sit in while on the trailer. The outside "pads" are basically a 2X6 board that runs along the hull from about the forward hatch to the center of the cockpit. This means the aft part of the board is raised higher near the end of the trailer. When you launch, I found it easier to lower the aft part of the board so the boat doesn't have to float over the higher end of the board at the back of the trailer. I suppose you would have the similar (if not more managable)issues if you had rollers raised higher in the back??

I just think no matter which keel you go with, I would try real hard to get rollers (If you have to trailer).

Around here with hurricanes always a consideration I want a trailer handy. We have it down to about 1/2 hour to launch. Maybe less. That's without time lowering mast. We do that at the dock prior to launching. Ramp has trees overhead. But that's another issue. I think they cleared them last year so there's hope.

2 cents.

Good Luck. Good Sailing.

PS. I love the wing. I have no depth for fixed and I simply don't want swing in salt water. Swing in salt works. Many have them and I hear good things but wing was my choice for about an inch difference. (swing UP).

Edited by - on

Brian King
1st Mate

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USA
73 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2006 : 12:15:00

Just to add another opinion here, my '89 WK is easily launched and retrieved with my Trailrite with bunks and tounge extension. One of the PO's bought the trailer in 2000 for about $3k. It is true that you float a C25 off the trailer so I don't think there is much difference between bunks or rollers. Our lake has a state launch that I use and I believe it is probably a standard pitch on the ramp. No problems here. Use extreme caution if you decide to use the unhitch and chain method described above. Your typical tounge jack is not meant to be used as a wheel to move the trailer with the boat on it. Been there, done that!

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2006 : 12:21:45

Scooter, it sounds like you have "bunks' not pads. These are pads...

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2006 : 13:27:23

A trailer with rollers can launch a boat in shallower water than one with bunks or pads. As the boat rolls back, the trailer's swing arms rotate aft and down, lowering it into the water. It can also retrieve the boat in shallower water, and I did it once with my fin keel, but don't recommend it. It puts a lot of stress on the boat and trailer, and cranking the winch wears out your arm. Years ago, I saw one roll off the trailer in the parking lot, and the owner winched it back on the trailer just using the trailer winch.

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Scooter
Navigator

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USA
228 Posts

Response Posted - 04/04/2006 : 13:24:55

You're right. I have bunks. I also have "guides" that are vertical bunks that would run along the center board on the pad trailer shown above. The intent is to keep the keel centered on the bottom support board while loading. These often get caught on the wing keel. I hope to splash this weekend. I'll post a pic soon. Maybe later today??

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EAbrams
Navigator

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USA
130 Posts

Response Posted - 04/04/2006 : 19:48:27

Hey Scooter,

We are almost neighbors. I own a lot on Broad Creek near Oriental NC.

We just bought an 87 wing keel for the same reasons you mentioned. We have between 3.5 and 4 feet of water at our dock.

Did you buy your trailer locally? Can you tell me where you bought it?

Thanks Ed

Edited by - on

Scooter
Navigator

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USA
228 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2006 : 12:06:35

That's an interesting story.

Short version:
Backyard Boats in Woodridge VA 800-227-6132 cost= about $3,200 new in 2004. Included spare tire, extended tounge, and ladder on winch stand. Thing is though... it's made in western NC in Candler NC by "Road King". I tried and Road King would only deal through distributor. Road King also has a place in Ocala FL.

Longer version:
I bought the boat on Long Island NY. While searching for boats I looked at one boat at this boat yard near Backyard boats in VA. They recommended Backyard boats for trailers. They were the lowest I could find nearby for what I wanted. (at least of those that sounded like they knew anything about what they were talking about.) The price fit close with what I was hearing on this forum and other places. I just didn't want to pay $2000 or less for a used trailer I could not trust.

I drove from NC on my way to pick the boat up on LI and stopped on the way in VA to pick up the trailer. The delivery driver forgot the front winch stand on the flat bed so Backyard boats had to radio ahead and catch the driver and get the post. Meanwhile I'm waiting while they assembled the trailer (It came in pieces.) I thought I would simply drive in,. sign, attach, and drive off. They guessed at the alignment of the bunks. When I got to LI they had a crane to lift the boat and I simple backed the trailer under and we adjusted everything.
This was all happening on Labor day weekend (Friday) so they were rushing to get me out of there because the masses were coming to get launched for the weekend. I had never lowered the mast. Had to improvise supports (I didn't have before.) I tried to make the A-frame right there but it was taking so long that they used a fork lift (all the way up)and some rigging and we got the mast down.
My sife was working just north of Manhatten that weekend so she took a taxi and I ended meeting up with her at some exit north of JFK. It was by now rush hour on a holiday Fri dinner time. We decided to sit, have dinner and wait until traffic was down. Remember we have this new trailer and boat in NY city. I was just hoping things didn't fall off. Things like the boat !!!..... Also if you have ever driven down 95 on a Friday.....Philly, DC, Baltimore...

We ended up getting back to NC around breakfast. Long day. Got the boat for great price and it was well worth the effort.

And yes we are close but Oriental is about 5-6 hr sail. I'm just next to Vandemere, about 3 miles from ICW off marker 5 up Bay River.

Here's some trailer pics:
The center guide keeps it centered on the trailer while loading.

Note washout garden hose attachment to sinse the breaks with fresh water.

To paint the bottom I made straight posts for the keel bunks. I replace them and attach the existing keel bunk facing up like the outboard bunks. I can then lift the entire boat off the center keel rest to paint the bottom of the keel. I simply put a floor jack under the posts and jack each one a little at a time. The more jacks the easier it is.

To show the ladder, winch, and tounge extension.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2006 : 15:26:31

guys looking for trailers -

http://www.loadmastertrailerco.com/

http://home.att.net/~sail-trailers/index.html

http://www.triadtrailers.com/

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EAbrams
Navigator

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USA
130 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2006 : 19:06:24

Thank you Duanne, Already got a quote from Triad. Now I have two more to call.

Thanks Scooter, all that info is greatly appreciated. Especially your earlier post about the keel hanging up on the keel guide and how you handled it.
BTW I live on Long Island and work at JFK. Please tell me you only met your wife just north of JFK. That is not a good neighborhood. Have dinner somewhere else!!

Here's a joke about the Belt Parkway near JFK

" I recently got a flat tire on my car and was jacking the front up to replace it with the spare, when I noticed the rear of my car being jacked up also. I walked around to the other side and saw a guy with a lug wrench taking my tires off. I said " Whadda ya think you are doing? !!! He said " Hey man! you got the front tires I'm taken da rear!

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