Association Forum - Hydraulic Motor Bracket

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Hydraulic Motor Bracket

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Cate
Navigator

Member Avatar

199 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/07/2006 : 08:36:38

I am getting a new 4-stroke outboard this spring and am looking at my 20 year old motor bracket with trepidation. I know Catalina Direct sells the spring models, but I was wondering if any of you fine sailors have installed a hydraulic motor bracket on your Cat-25. If yes, can you provide info about the install and where you got it?

I just bought my 1983 Cat-25 last fall and noticed the motor bracket is mounted on what looks like a piece of lumber. I'm not sure if this is part of the original design, but the wood is very weathered looking and has no protection from the elements. Suggestions for replacement?

1983 C-25, Standard rig, swing keel

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2006 : 11:29:48

Several of us have used a 1/2" piece of Starboard (plastic lumber) as a plate to mount the bracket on, in order to spread the load and, in some cases, move the engine and tiller handle a little further from the boat/sternrail. OMC (the long-gone Johnson/Evinrude company) used to sell a gas strut-assisted bracket, but I haven't seen any sign of it for years. If you search for recent threads on "brackets", you'll see discussions and pictures of the best models out there now. Garelick even has an electric one--for many boat units.

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2006 : 07:40:22

The OMC bracket only had about 9 inches of vertical travel. I had one briefly, but the travel issue made me swap it for a Garelick.

Brooke

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2006 : 08:53:27

When I replace my motor bracket this past Fall, I also added a piece of Starboard. In my case, I just used what I had left over from a project, believe it was 1/4" thick. I have details of the installation of the motor bracket on my website. I then replaced the motor this past February with a 2006 Honda 9.9 4-stroke. The Garhauer bracket works fine with this motor except that to raise the motor, I have to first push down with my foot on the bracket handle to get the handle out of the lock slot. When I push down with my foot which is a sort of gentle push, the motor/bracket automatically pops up about 4". That is probably why I have to use my foot to release the handle - the spring is ample enough to push the motor up a bit. I then easily raise the the outboard handle the rest of the way and lock it in the up position slot.

I still have the old pulley system attached to the motor. But on the new setup, I only have it there as a safety in case the motor fell off the bracket. In the old setup with the 2 spring bracket, the pulley was a must to raise the motor.

Edited by - on

Captain Bill
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
148 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2006 : 20:05:17

Don't know anything about it but I ran across this looking for motors. Check this power unit out. Is this what you mean?
http://www.iboats.com/mall/index.cgi?prod_id=13581

Bill

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2006 : 07:02:01

Someone needs to come up with a bracket that lifts and tilts.

Edited by - on

Cate
Navigator

Members Avatar

199 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2006 : 08:02:21

[quote]Originally posted by Captain Bill
 Don't know anything about it but I ran across this looking for motors. Check this power unit out. Is this what you mean?
http://www.iboats.com/mall/index.cgi?prod_id=13581

Yes. This CMC motor lift is what I was looking for...BUT after checking out Larry's install of the Garhauer 4-spring from CD I am thinking of going that way. I am not sure the CMC has the range of movement needed for the Cat-25 (1983) transom height. I am getting a Tohatsu 9.8 hp ultra long shaft (electric start) and also the Garhauer set-up. I am going to attempt the install myself with the boat in the water. (stern backed up to slip bulk head) Stay tuned.

P.S. After my " successful" installation I will have a 2-stroke Johnson sailmaster available for sale-CHEAP!

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2006 : 08:05:37

I made the change last year and the outboard came with the power tilt. The help came from the Forum of how to install and this is how it turned out. I can tilt from the cockpit and have inboard controls too.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6da31b3127cce88de974b81c500000015100AZs2jZkzbMWKA

Edited by - on

Cate
Navigator

Members Avatar

199 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2006 : 08:41:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by sweetcraft
 I made the change last year and the outboard came with the power tilt. The help came from the Forum of how to install and this is how it turned out. I can tilt from the cockpit and have inboard controls too.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6da31b3127cce88de974b81c500000015100AZs2jZkzbMWKA
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Jim,
What is the bracket in the picture?

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2006 : 08:50:25

Catalina Direct 4 spring. Really works good. I use a line above from the stern pulpit to help lift the whole unit during trailering and also in the picture are the PVC pipes that steady the unit during travel to reduce wear, they are attached to a rudder gudgeon and the base of the mount.

Edited by - on

Jmurfy
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
176 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2006 : 23:03:42

I just replaced my outboard bracket with the 4 spring Garhauer from Catalina Direct. I added the 1/2" Starboard on both sides of the transom as others here recommended. Was actually pretty easy to do. The only issue was finding Starboard at a reasonable cost and the 3/8" bolts from CD are to short. Dont waste the money on them. Just get your stainless steel 3/8"-16 x 3" long bolts, nuts and washers from a local supplier.I feel good about having the extra thickness at the transom.

Edited by - on

Cate
Navigator

Members Avatar

199 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2006 : 12:26:06

Edited by - on

IndyJim
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
130 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2006 : 21:55:13

Cate,
I have a Yamaha 4 stroke that has electric tilt. I wasn't really on the market for it, my dealer just happened to have one in stock with a long shaft. Being the impatient guy that I am, I took the one he had in stock instead of ordering, thinking the electric tilt was a luxury. Now I'm spoiled! Push the button and no more yankin' the motor up!

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2006 : 09:34:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by IndyJim
 Cate,
I have a Yamaha 4 stroke that has electric tilt.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My Yamaha T8 is also the Power Tilt option. It is a great motor, but I ran into one unanticipated problem with it. The tiller handle on the Yamaha T8 and T9.9 is much longer than what comes on most other outboards, about 10" longer than the handle on the old Honda 75 that I replaced. The extra length meant that the handle actually crosses the transom coaming and sticks into the cockpit almost 7". I thought this would be nice, not having to lean way over the stern to use the throttle and gearshift, but what I didn't consider is that the stern pulpit has a stanchion RIGHT WHERE the tiller handle is! So, the outboard tiller handle could only be turned to the right (boat turns left), which was unacceptable, as I need full motor steering control to maneuver the boat in our uncomfortably tight fairways at Folsom Lake Marina. What I ended up having to do was buy two pieces of 6" square aluminum tubing, to offset the whole motor and mount. The tip of the tiller handle still sticks into the cockpit about 1.5" and still hits the stanchion in the flat position, but at least now it's possible to turn the handle to the left by lifting it about 20º above the horizontal position. If I had to do it over again, I would probably go with the Honda instead of the Yamaha, as it has the regular length tiller handle that clears the stern pulpit stanchions.
I also replaced the mount at the same time as the motor, and went with the Garhauer/CD 4-spring model. It works great with the 135# Yamaha, and in fact I have to push down with an additional 30# of force to get the mount into the lowest position.

Edited by - lcharlot on 04/15/2006 09:37:13

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2006 : 10:40:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by lcharlot
 I also replaced the mount at the same time as the motor, and went with the Garhauer/CD 4-spring model. It works great with the 135# Yamaha, and in fact I have to push down with an additional 30# of force to get the mount into the lowest position.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
That sounds familiar... Maybe we should ask CD/Garhauer to make a 3-spring version for the Honda and Yamaha engines.

Edited by - on

gnorgan
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
563 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2006 : 22:58:20

Hey, Dave. Catalina Direct already sells the 3-spring version: #Z2274 (page 4.52 Rc) in my most recent 3-ring binder catalog from them. I have it listed at $265 and is rated for an 80 to 100 pound motor. Their price might have gone up some. Need to call them and check.
I've got the 8hp Honda (1997 version) mounted on a 2-spring version. I'd been wondering if this was strong enough when recently the lower spring failed. What has happened is that one end (the short end that hooks onto the cross bolt at the bottom) got bent out fairly straight. When pushing the motor all the way down this end slips past the bolt which means it no longer provides any tension. It slips off and smacks the stern and has left a gouge in the gel coat and fiberglass underneath.
So now I am faced with figuring out a method to repair or replacing the whole motor mount. The springs were slipped on the cross bar and then the supports were welded in place making the springs impossible to replace, a flaw in their design.
I am going to search our site to see if anyone has added springs....I seem to remember someone doing this.
I may also be able to rebend the end of the spring so it works again but then this may happen again. I fear that the 2 spring model just isn't strong enough for a Honda 8hp which, I think, weighs in at around 85 pounds or so.
Not sure I want to spend the money on a new motor mount so will need a cheap, but permanent, fix. Anyone have some really good ideas?

Edited by - gnorgan on 04/18/2006 22:59:09

Cate
Navigator

Members Avatar

199 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2006 : 08:18:19

Here is a pic of the existing mount. I am getting the CD 4-spring for a new Nissan 4-stroke. My question is...what do I use to replace that piece of warping, cracking lumber that is attached to the transom?

Edited by - on

gnorgan
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
563 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2006 : 23:18:49

Replace it with anything

Actually, my motor mount is attached directly to the hull so I'd suggest nothing in its place.
That wood plate just looks like a continuing headache. Looks like a cheap fix for a bigger problem maybe.
Shorter through bolts, maybe a good sized stainless backing plate, maybe a thin piece of that starboard stuff mentioned in other posts.
Just my 2 cents worth.
BTW, gas here is over $3 a gallon at all local stations for regular unleaded as of today. So I may be doing cheaper fixes on the boat from now on, too.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2006 : 06:10:09

Cate,

I read your comments about going with the 4-spring Garhauer similar to my setup and also about what to do with the wood attached to the transom. I am not so familiar with your year catalina and the original setup. I guess it is the 2 spring Garhauer ?

The one thing you may want to do first before buying a new bracket is to buy the motor and try it out on your old bracket. I say this because the Catalina Direct website provides a guide as to the weight motor each bracket is designed for and the 4 sproing model may be more than enough or too much spring for your new lightweight 4 stroke. I guess others that have replaced their motors and brackets can advise you if they also went with same setup. When I made the change, I went with the bracket first but that was because I knew i was going to buy the Yamaha or the Honda motor and both were slightly over 100 lbs in weight. I believe the Tohatsu and Nissan are just under 90 lbs but I could be wrong. perhaps the long shaft model pushes the weight up a bit. In any case, the 4 spring Garhauer would probably work with it okay but you may need even more foot force to release it from the down locked position and it may be actually harder to get it into the down position because you need to push it down with your hand with more force than with the heavier motors. I do believe as was also mentioned that Catalina Direct also sells a 3 spring Garhauer and that may be more appropriate for the lighter weight 4 strokes - not sure. Rcmd check Catalina Directs guidance for what each bracket model is geared toward - What weight range.

Your old bracket is 20 yrs old and so if it has only 2 springs, those 2 springs may have relaxed a bit thru all those years and so it may not be a good comparison for what a new 2 spring or 3 spring can do for you. I am sure a new 2 spring is not the way to go unless you have a motor believe in the 60-80 lb range. believe the 3 spring is for motors around the 80-90lb range and the 4 spring is for something like 90-110 lb range. But best to check the Catalina Direct website and what others experiences have been for exactly the motor you are intending to buy.

I was just on the boat the other day showing the improvements I made to a coworker and I worked the motor up and down. The Honda 4 stroke long shaft and 4 spring Garhauer is a good match with following characteristics at least for me - need to forcefully push it down to lock but not overly hard to do and seems much easier than when first installed when it was very hard to get it to lock. Once in lowest down position, I need to push with my foot to release it from the lock position but it is somewhat gentle foot pressure and then the bracket raises the motor up about 4". it can then be raised with one hand to the up position with some exertion but fairly easy. The tilt position comes close to my stern rail ...maybe within 1" of it but sufficient clearance to lock in the tilt position each and every time. My solar panel is mounted on custom-made brackets up above the stern rail and does not interfere with motor in the tilt position or even if motor has to be reomoved. As far as transom wood backing that you have on exisiting mount. You can use a thick piece of Starboard bought from West marine and inside the transom you can do same or use nothing. The reinforcing bars that Catalina Direct sells for mountin insode the transom may work but for me, they did not fit. I think they are lying still somewhere on my workbench. I decided to use only a 1/4" Starboard outside the transom and none inside. My transom is in fine shape with no noticeable curvature. There was a 4 stroke (12 yrs old) used on transom previously and there was no extra reingorcement and so the 1/4" Starboard was in addition to what was not there before. I had no addition wood mount like you have but realize that if you put nothing there, your motor will also be about ~1" closer to the stern rail and so may want to look that over a bit before deciding on final mounting of the new bracket you intend to purchase.

Edited by - on

Cate
Navigator

Members Avatar

199 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2006 : 09:10:25

Larry-Thank you for the extended discussion of my motor mount project. You are absolutely right about the 4-spring Garhauer bracket-it is designed for motors over 95lbs. and the motor I am buying weighs in at 81lbs. The 3-spring will be more than adequate. I will need to push the motor down even with the 3-spring. As for the wooden mount, I think it is covering some other holes that were drilled into the transom. When I went inside to check the bracket mounting there were several holes that seemed to be filled in from a previous mount.

http://homepage.mac.com/poolec/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2006-04-15%2019.22.54%20-0700/Image-DD877926CCEE11DA.jpg

I am afraid of what I'm going to find when I remove that cracking, warping lumber. The issue of motor offset from the stern rail is also a serious consideration. I can just see me installing a new motor and bracket only to find I am hitting the stern with the motor tiller. Argghh. Your comments probably have saved me major problems with an install. I've got to think this through and take more measurments. THANK YOU!!!

Edited by - on

Captain Bill
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
148 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2006 : 10:17:50

I am considering a new motor mount for a Honda 8 which will weigh 117 lbs. with XLS and electric start. I read all the posts I could find and finally realized that the construction of the Garhauers are all similar but it's lifting ability that makes the differrence. (Newbie or what)? Anyway, I called Garhauer (very helpful folks)and learned that the 2 spring model gives 50 lbs. of lift and the 4 spring model gives 100 lbs. of lift. Therefore, I assume that the 3 spring model must give about 75 lbs. of lift. That made my decision a lot easier since at my age I'm not getting any stronger and the motors are getting heavier. I'm ordering the 4 spring model. Now do I need a backing plate or not?

Bill

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2006 : 10:43:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by gnorgan
 ...The springs were slipped on the cross bar and then the supports were welded in place making the springs impossible to replace, a flaw in their design...I am going to search our site to see if anyone has added springs....I seem to remember someone doing this...Anyone have some really good ideas?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Gary, I seem to remember someone sending an arm back to Garhauer to have a spring replaced. It may have been done gratis too.

Edited by - dlucier on 04/20/2006 10:43:54

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2006 : 11:28:53

cate,

I'm hoping someone else with the motor and bracket combination similar to what you are contemplating responds, then you can get a clear idea if the 4 spring or the 3 spring is best. It would seem that the 3 spring would be most suitable and your checking the Catalina Direct website seems to confirm that (based on weight ranges for each bracket) but...so many have replaced the original bracket with a 4 spring, someone should be able to tell you how it is with a light 4 stroke long shaft motor. If the 4 spring is okay - to push down and to release it to bring back up, then I would go with the 4 spring. It's going to relax a bit after the first month - Not much but a bit. But without that input, the 3 spring seems the better match - at least on paper.

The closeness of the tilt position to the stern rail will probably work out okay but since so many have gone with a starboard between the bracket and the transom for support reasons, it would seem that then there would be two good reasons for a starboard back there - reinforcement and stern rail clearance.

Anyway, good luck with your decision and installation !

Edited by - on

gnorgan
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
563 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2006 : 23:51:32

Don, thanks for your input. I hadn't thought of doing what you suggest....and Garhauer is roughly 75 minutes from my home along the 10 freeway. I shall give them a call in the morning, provided they are open Saturday, and find out if they can do this.
Great idea!! Thanks

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.