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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/10/2006 : 21:22:53

After 7 years of crap electrical panels I decided to make the plunge and put in something decent. Last season we put in the Blue Sea systems AC panel for the microwave, cabin outlets and battery charger. The beat up old original Catalina Yachts panel and a newer Sea Dog 3 switch panel were eyesores compared to the slick looking Blue Sea Panel with the volt meter.

I’d priced out the Blue Sea 8068 for about 9 mos and finally settled on 275 bucks. I also picked up a couple of extra switches since the panel only comes with 10 of the 13 with breakers installed. It was already back lit and came with the shunt for the ammeter.

We picked up a back cover as well. The first step was to label all of the crap that was wired to the old panel. As we disconnected each item from the older panels or the bus bars we marked each one. What a nightmare. After everything was labeled we cut out the paper template and started positioning everything. - We traced the paper template, pulled out 150 feet of extension cord and plugged it in to the closest outlet and the other end into the shore power. On to the power-tool portion of the install; we attempted to cut the bulkhead behind the sink since there were already two holes there. Rotozip had too much girth. Sawsall was a bit more than we needed. The Jigsaw couldn’t maneuver and the Dremel box didn’t have the right bit….Harvey suggested that we pulled the entire aft bulkhead out ….Usually these are the types of things that end up in huge catastrophic rebuilds, but for once we actually thought before we executed and after removing the AC panel a phone jack, a cig light, the galley shelf and 4 screws we had the bulkhead out and were cutting away.

Tip number one – cover the area to be cut with masking tape. The bottom of the jig saw can easily mar the surface of the teak bulkhead.

Tip number two– template doesn’t have full size of panel on it, just the cutout section. Between having to cover the old holes and line up everything there was a little room for error. After we positioned everything, we actually lucked out the panel fit exactly flush against the AC panel. There was a little wiggle room and it looks like we planned it that way. Next time we add the dimensions of the panel to our cutout template to allow for positioning of the entire panel. We could have been very very screwed here.

After remounting the bulkhead and then remounting everything it was time to connect the wires. Including running lights and counting the cabin lights as 1 we have 18 separate electrical items. In the interest of keeping the spaghetti most of the wires were cut to fit on the old panel. Because of that we decided to keep the negative bus bar and used the negative bus on the panel only where there was enough length in the line to move the wire to the panel. We aren’t going to have time to rewire the entire boat this year, so the mess of tangled lunacy will remain for one more season, at which time we can logically bundle everything with the correct lengths of wire. Until that time it looks good from the front and is correct but ugly from the sail locker.

A few notes – Blue Sea Panels use a ¼ 20 screw. Normal loop connectors are a touch smaller. The Ushaped connectors are much easier to work with and even if they are off that littl bit, they can be bent slightly to fit the post on the terminal.

If you have a bunch of electrical gadgets, plan ahead. We had three different plans of what was going where and how it would fit into the panel. It eliminated the last minute decisions. Over label everything and don’t take off the old labels from the previous time until you’ve identified and labeled everything and all items are accounted for. We had hot and neutral labels for each piece of equipment ready to go. We were missing the cabin light negative…….after 25 minutes we rehashed everything form the old labels only to find that the old running lights, steaming mast etc all used the same negative wire. We aren’t using any of the old running lights so we actually lost track of that wire the old labels helped us find it again.

To those of you that claimed the aft bulkhead was structural in nature ……I would disagree, vehemently
To those of you that claimed the aft bulkhead was waterproof to the cabin…..I laugh at you….

Here are some pictures and links of what I installed. I will have a final install pic coming soon. After about 90 minutes each sitting in the sail locker ( I might not that the instructions state to wire before mounting….I wish we had that much slack in all of our wires) I wasn’t about to stick around for the photo op.

Panel Pre install:

Back of Panel pre Install

Shunt panel and panelback cover

Panel Schematic

Also - Here is the AC Panel

I'll try and get the photos posted ASAp

D. Wolff
DPO C25 Hull 401
Currently Sailing "Champagne and Ripple" 1982 O'day 30

Chief Measurer 2002-2006
Vice-commodore 2007

Edited by - Champipple on 04/13/2006 18:44:56

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2006 : 18:50:03

Not one of you has a comment. Wow...

Anyway here are the pictures of the installed panel along with the Tangled spaghetti mess prior to the rewire job, of which I have about 25 % done. It is going to take a good amount of time to get everything into shape. I'll post pics again when that is finished. When the interior cleaning time comes into play, I'll oil that bulkhead and touch up any of the bad spots you might see that the saw left in the picture.

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1768 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2006 : 19:00:46

... Not one of you has a comment. Wow... - Duane

Beautiful work, Duane, but I'm such an electrical dunce, I can't even ask an intelligent question, or make worthwhile comment ... I'm exhausted just reading about it

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2006 : 19:03:57

Hi Buzz, I was going to say the same thing. I am in awe of anyone that can figure that out.

Hi Duane, it looks like a work of art and way beyond my comprehention. I was at the boat today looking at my 1977 panel thinking that your panel would look a lot better. Good job. Cheers.

Edited by - on

Lightnup
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1016 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2006 : 19:16:27

To me, a negative bus is what Sandra Bullock drove in the movie "Speed."

Duane, you have my admiration. There is no way in this lifetime that I would attempt a job like that. I felt really competent last week when I was able to wiggle the right wire to get my anchor light to come on. Hopefully I'll be more ambitious in my next lifetime and your pictures will still be on the site then.

Steve

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2006 : 19:20:15

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2006 : 19:41:12

in about 45 years when my daughter gets married am I going to lose my gift of gab too Frank?

Edited by - on

Bubba
Admiral

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USA
542 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2006 : 19:44:38

Electrifying!!!

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2006 : 22:55:00

Duane,

That's a beautiful electrical panel. It looks very similar in construction to the used one I installed. Mine came without labels (as in your first photo). So how are the circuit labels attached? Are the labels readily available separately from Blue Sea Systems?

Good job on labeling all those wires. Wire labels, color coding, organized bundles, a set of accurate schematics, and a handheld VOM on board can make troubleshooting easier. (As you perhaps discovered with your previous electrical system.)

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

mmac
Navigator

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USA
168 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2006 : 01:51:09

Duane,

Thank you!! I have a Blue Sea Panel like yours that's been sitting in its box in my quarterberth for over a year. I've been trying to get up the courage install it. Now, thanks to you, I'm getting antsy to try it.

Excellent job, by the way. If mine comes out looking half that good, I'll be a happy camper...er sailor.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2006 : 07:17:15

Thanks Leon. The labels are available from Blue Sea. They have an order form online http://www.bluesea.com/productdetaillist.asp?d_id=7136 You should be able to pick up any of 500 different labels – including gun turret locks – for 50 cents each. Shipping was even free on these. We still need to pick up one. They are adhesive backed plastic sticker type things. They adhere very well.

As you can tell from that picture there wasn’t an organized bundle in the batch. I completed the AC panel wiring this past Wednesday. Grouping all in the black corrugated/split conduit then putting the back cover on the panel. We still need to group all of the DC wires but that is going to take some time, plus I don’t want to cover all of that up until the mast is up and we can test the steaming, anchor and deck lights. At that point I plan on working left to right with each hole coming out of the bulkhead adding conduit and re-wiring them to the panel. With 16 soon to be 17 when we add a water pressure pump x 2 wires, some spliced twice over, it makes for a big mess and a lot of feeder holes.

I can honestly say we aren’t color coded, I priced out all the wire and it was within reasonable limits, Rerunning things will have to be a gradual project…Labeling was a sharpie and a box of mailing labels.

Thanks also Mike. Give yourself two full days, it isn’t a project you want to rush. Measure twice cut once and take the bulkhead out like we did. It isn’t that many screws and it really makes the cutting more accurate. Before you do mark it’s angle relative to the counter and the roof. You will want to mount the panel parallel to one of the two – your choice – but you will have a tough time finding that angle prior to that.

dw

Edited by - Champipple on 04/14/2006 07:21:48

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2006 : 07:39:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Not one of you has a comment. Wow...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

. . . because we're speechless in awe. Great work, Duane.

Maybe I can do something like that when I have time . . . when I retire in ten years or so. No, wait . . . that's when I trade my C25 for a Pacific Seacraft or Morris or Dickerson or Cherubini or something I can live aboard six months a year.

Brooke

Edited by - on

Lightnup
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1016 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2006 : 10:10:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Brooke Willson
 
Maybe I can do something like that when I have time . . . when I retire in ten years or so. No, wait . . . that's when I trade my C25 for a Pacific Seacraft or Morris or Dickerson or Cherubini or something I can live aboard six months a year.

Brooke
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That's assuming there will still be places that allow liveaboards by then.

Steve

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2006 : 11:46:14

If the sea level rises as predicted, we may all be liveaboards by then. Well, maybe not Hopper in Kansas. My hope is that half the year I'll be on the move between Maine and the Virgin Islands. The other half of the year I'll pretend to be a normal person, if I can figure out how.

Brooke

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2006 : 12:18:42

I'd like to do that but my old panel is doing the job. I've done a lot of rewiring, though. Pretty much none of the switches on the Catalina panel do what they say anymore (for example Spreader Lights are my Instruments - never had spreader lights). One thing I hate is all the wires sitting in the bilge. If there ever was a salt water leak, good-bye electrical system. Since you're doing such a great job, be sure to lift the wires and support them every 18 inches.

Oh yeah, I hate wires glassed into the deck even more than those in the bilge!!

Edited by - on

mmac
Navigator

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USA
168 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2006 : 16:02:58

Thanks for the advice. When I did some rewiring last year, I bought a "book" of wire lables at Home Depot for about 7 bucks. they seem to work fairly well.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2006 : 20:20:31

Nice job Duane,
I too have almost completely replaced/rewired all of my original 12 volt circuitry. I now have three seperate panels for a total of 18 circuits, all but four are now being used. I like the circuit breaker type of panel that you used. You paid a lot of money for it, but you got a lot of panel for your hard earned cash.

I hope that the newer Catalinas have better electrical panels/wiring as original equipment than what comes on the 89 model.

Quick question: How does the blue sea panel indicate that a circuit is activated, other than switch position of course. Does each circuit have an "on" light.

Thanks

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2006 : 20:27:57

Bad news, the newer (2005) panels are a mess behind the bulkhead.
I was appalled when I looked there, and yep, the glassed in wires from the battery compartment (boot, trunk, backendbox, whatever) are just not a good idea. It's a cheap way to run electrics. The crazy thing is they have a tube that runs under the stbd gunwhale for electics! why not run tubes all over the place. Sure would make updating the electrics a much easier job.

Nice panel! I was looking at some while visiting the local Marine Flea Market here a couple of weeks ago. Wish I had bought one now

Paul

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2006 : 20:43:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gloss
 Nice job Duane,

Quick question: How does the blue sea panel indicate that a circuit is activated, other than switch position of course. Does each circuit have an "on" light.

Thanks
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

There is a light for each circuit. you can see them better in the pre-installed picture in my first post.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2006 : 23:33:35

I've been waiting for this update ever since you first teased us with the photo of the panel pre-install.
That is a first rate job. Very impressive.

Edited by - on

IndyJim
Navigator

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USA
130 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2006 : 21:21:47

Duane,
Very nice job on the entire project (work in progress) Two years ago I did the same job and I can also attest that success lies in labeling the wires as you take them off the old panel! I'm sure I was kind of anal in my methodology but I didn't want to be sitting around worrying about electical problems while I was scooting through the water with a cool beverage in hand.

After I completed the formidable task of re-wiring and the new AC/DC panels, I saw some skippers that had relocated the electrical to a nice custom box above the starboard setee. I've always disliked reaching over the sink and ice box to turn systems on and off, so here is my question to you.... Did you ever consider relocating the panels? Just curious and I'd love to know your thoughts/reasoning.

After successfully conquering the re-wiring beast, I'm not about to move the panel, but I might have if I'd seen how nice some of the other guy's panels look. Just curious...
My only other question is... how many times did the seat locker hatch konk you in the head while climbing in and out of the locker?

I got tired of positioning a work light down below and installed a directional 12 volt light that shines toward the back of the panel...and thus creating the need for another switch on the panel! :) But it's okay because now I don't have to dig around in the dark for dock lines and fenders in the seat locker compartment when I come in at night!

Nice job on the panel!

Edited by - on

SailFisher
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2006 : 23:28:45

Ahoy thar Duane,

Very nice job, I know 'cuz I installed the ~exact same panel a year ago. My older Blue Sea 13 position panel (8068) had 3 blank top right positions, no LEDs, and no light kit. I owned the panel for a couple of years planning, learning, planning, thinking and planning the massive job. I met and convinced (bribed) a fellow cruiser (elec eng) to help, we docked at Barefoot Landing and after three 8 hour days and I produced many cold beers, we finished the panel job.
I'd send pix if I didn't swamp dig camera yesterday in dingy, aarrgghh.

Here's a couple of thoughts:

1) I cut the positive bus bar with bolt cutters at the 2 top right positions. This allowed me to install a red toggle 40 amp breaker (7225) and run all DC thru this first, giving me a DC Main switch to shut down entire DC (except bilges and anchor light). Also added to top position a red LED and toggle guard. Still had 2 blank positions for future, used up one this year putting my wind gen stop toggle below that, still have one blank (future refig).

2) I bought from Blue Sea more labels, buss bars and light kit.

3) I called Blue Sea with meter and battery bank switch questions. Nice tech guy (name?) answered all questions, then I asked why the meters didn't have lights, he agreed and said the lighted meters just came out that week (months ago) and he would send me 2 new lighted meters for FREE. Blue Sea = very expensive = very worth it.
I asked for the 1-15 ammeter instead of the 1-50 ammeter.

4) I have one bank of 4 27s, so he explained using a battery bank switch position with a twisted pair of wires to monitor the charging amps of wind, solar, or both (recommended).I haven't done this yet, I'd use bigger ammeter.

5) Where did you find a $480 panel for $275 ??? I paid 450+ years ago.

Very curious what your breakers are (can't read in foto), and after much thought here's mine

__15A____16V_______DC Main (50A)
[meter][meter]_______Wind Generator(AirX)
___________________(blank)
Running Lights*______Instruments*
Steaming Light_______Outlets (3)
Cockpit Lights________Autopilot
Cabin Lights (Fans)___Stereo (Sirius Satelite)
Panel Lights_________TV (15"LCD)

All lights are LED except Mega Anchor Light.

*Running lights - to buss bar that includes Red, Green, Stern, Compass.

*Instruments - to buss bar2 that includes GPS, Fishfinder, Speed, VHF, Laptop (their own on/off)

All Cabin lights and Fans have their own on/off switches.

Maybe add Steaming to Running (I know...but safer) and then have spare breaker.

Bilge1 and Bilge2 (need on/auto/off each) and Mega Anchor(light sensor) are wired directly, with inline fuses and on/off.

I just noticed in Blue Sea catalog 3way on/off/auto (8207)

I did finish this year adding 4 new group 27s with all new 2 guage from each to panel.

And added AirX wind gen with 6 guage, and 5 solar panels with controller.

After I insulate 3", I'm gonna convert ice box to fridge, that's the blank one.

Some day I will do the AC panel,(8043) fits and looks awesome, I'll use that, still planning thinking saving ...

PS: Did you see the logo animation or should I resend.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2006 : 06:45:58

I too have done several elecrical add-ons over the years - two batts, cigarette lighter plugs (3), auto pilot, chart plotter. Frankly Duane, I have "panel envy". I'm still using the original Catalina panel with two 10 circuit bus bars.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2006 : 06:53:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
1) I cut the positive bus bar with bolt cutters at the 2 top right positions. This allowed me to install a red toggle 40 amp breaker (7225) and run all DC thru this first, giving me a DC Main switch to shut down entire DC (except bilges and anchor light). Also added to top position a red LED and toggle guard. Still had 2 blank positions for future, used up one this year putting my wind gen stop toggle below that, still have one blank (future refig). <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
We use our A,B,AB,OFF as the master. We also didn’t install a third battery, so we can use that position to turn off the battery meters
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
2) I bought from Blue Sea more labels, buss bars and light kit. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
 We were able to get by only needing one additional label – although they are very cheap and millions are available if needed. We had a bus bar from the previous panel and the light kits were already installed
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
3) I called Blue Sea with meter and battery bank switch questions. Nice tech guy (name?) answered all questions, then I asked why the meters didn't have lights, he agreed and said the lighted meters just came out that week (months ago) and he would send me 2 new lighted meters for FREE. Blue Sea = very expensive = very worth it.
I asked for the 1-15 ammeter instead of the 1-50 ammeter.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
 our meters were already lit

4) I have one bank of 4 27s, so he explained using a battery bank switch position with a twisted pair of wires to monitor the charging amps of wind, solar, or both (recommended).I haven't done this yet, I'd use bigger ammeter.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
5) Where did you find a $480 panel for $275 ??? I paid 450+ years ago.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I had been looking for this panel and pricing it for over a year. Ebay generally has one for under 300. I used froogle.com to (by google) to find one already lit for that price. It was actually 277 and change. The additional switches, backing boxes and backlights (I didn’t know it was prelit) were reasonably priced as well. http://www.boatersland.com/blu-8068.html was where I got it. 
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Very curious what your breakers are (can't read in foto), and after much thought here's mine<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Here is what I have – Label, then components
All are 15 amp circuits

1. Running Lights – Cockpit light, red/green bow, stern light, cockpit light (has switch inside sail locker) compass backlight, Speedo Backlight) All panel Backlighting (meters and switches)
2. Steaming Light - same
3. Anchor Light - same
4. Foredeck Light - same
5. Main Cabin Lights
6. SPARE - First Switch on Right Side
7. Water Pressure – Empty now, plan on installing water pump later this summer
8. Bilge Pump - Aft bilge pump (installed by prior owner in crappy location)
9. Macerator Pump – Will be Bilge pump two when the label comes, Bilge pump – properly located
10. Stereo – Radio and Cigarette lighter; we us the cig light to run a portable CD player or Sattelite XM radio
11. VHF – Same
12. Sailing Instruments – currently the Depth Sounder, but soon wind meter and new Knotmeter
13. Fans – Same

AC Panel
1 & 2 Master and reverse polarity indicator
3 Microwave
4 Battery Charger
5 Cabin Outlets



<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
PS: Did you see the logo animation or should I resend.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
 not sure what you are referring to?

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2006 : 09:53:43

Nice work Duane! Sweet installation

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">We use our A,B,AB,OFF as the master. We also didn’t install a third battery, so we can use that position to turn off the battery meters<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I was worried about this beacuse I am installing three batteries. Two house and a starting. Wonder why no off position on the meter switch? The schematic shows a 4 position switch.
The meter draws 1 milliamp at full scale. The meter runs at 1/2 scale all the time so that's 12 miliamps / day. I figure I can live with that.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2006 : 13:14:11

look again, the schematic has a 3 position switch. one wire goes to the meter

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The meter runs at 1/2 scale all the time so that's 12 miliamps / day. I figure I can live with that.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
if the power is on!

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