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Help! Swinger pivot/cable assistance???

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Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/29/2002 : 04:35:58

Friends: I can't find a Tech Tip that addresses these questions:
Any tricks in replacing the cable? I have a new one from Cat Direct, but I am concerned about pulling the old, then not getting the new one up through the whole "turning ball mechanism", or other factors I may not have thought of. What should I do/watch out for??

#2. Just noticed how much slop is in the keel. I'm sure it needs a new pivot. BUT, with the boat jacked up and blocked up off the rollers on the EZLoader, I only have about 2 inches between the keel and the bottom keel rollers. I can't imagine that's enough. How far down does the keel have to drop before one can replace the pin? I am calling Catalina Direct on Wednesday sometime to order parts, so help quick if you can!!!! Thanks.

I know lots of you guys have done these jobs, but I can't find help on the Tech Pages. Thanks for any advice! Gary B. SK/SR Encore! #685 and "Suede Shoes", SK/SR #496 on the trailer....

Edited by - on

Mark Rials
1st Mate

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USA
39 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2002 : 07:34:25

With the boat on dry land you can do the following:
Lower the keel until it is resting on a solid support.
The cable passes through a plastic pipe which sleeves
a rubber hose clamped to a bronze pipe in the hull
on it's way to the keel. Loosen the hose clamps on the
rubber hose and take the cable off the keel winch.
You can then lift the plastic pipe and rubber hose
off the bronze pipe and rethread the new cable.
Many people use a sealant when reclamping the rubber hose.

Mark & Pat Rials
C25 # 5450 "Garget"
Homeport Tampa, Fl.

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1768 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2002 : 09:28:15

Hi Gary,

I just completed replacing my cable ... good news ... it wasn't as much trouble as I was afraid it would be.

First ... the stainless steel cable is so stiff, you shouldn't have any trouble threading it up through the pipe.

Second ... with the plastic and rubber sleeves removed, it is easy to see the turning ball. However, removing the turning ball was the worst part of the job for me ... I couldn't see how to get the old one out. It was obvious to me that the previous owner(s) had never figured out how to get it out either, because the ball was frozen in place and the cable had worn it flat on one side from many raising & lowerings of the keel!

I finally figured out that the ball turns on a stainless steel shaft that is simply threaded through the hole in the center of the ball and through holes in each side of the brass pipe ... that keeps the ball in one spot. The only way I could get the shaft out to remove & replace the old turning ball was to grind down the built-up fiberglass on the outside of the brass pipe ... that exposed the ends of the shaft, and it punched out easily after that. Apparently that fiberglass coating had been on there since the boat was built ... there was NO way to remove the shaft & ball without grinding off the fiberglass first (BTW, I used a small sander to remove the fiberglass, but a grinding tool or Dremel tool would also work).

Once you've replaced the turning ball and shaft, the rubber hose covers the holes that the shaft is threaded through, keeping the shaft from slipping out. Catalina Direct recommended 3M Fast Cure 4200 Marine Adhesive Sealant, so that's what I used around the brass pipe and the bottom of the rubber hose ... in generous amounts. BTW, when you tighten the two hose clamps, you don't need them to be gorilla tight ... that pulls the end of the rubber hose off the end of the fiberblass/brass pipe ('found that out the hard way <img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle>).

Attaching the new cable to the cable winch is also a bit of a task, because the cable is really stiff. If you've got someone to help you, an extra set of hands is the way to go (I was solo ... 'actually made up some new curse words during this project <img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle>). I removed the winch from the companionway step ... I couldn't figure out how to replaced the cable without removing it. The cable is clamped to the outside of the winch spool with a flat plate and two lag bolts. After you have attached the end of the new cable to the spool and you are ready to wind the new cable onto it, that's when you REALLY need some extra hands to keep from getting a "rat's nest" tangle in the cable while you take up the slack. After you wind the cable onto the winch spool, reattach the winch to the companionway step, grab a beer, and marvel at your accomplishment! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Good luck!

Buzz Maring, C-25 SK/SR #68, "Freya"

Edited by - on

mroettersr
Navigator

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USA
148 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2002 : 00:36:36

Does anyone know the function of the plastic pipe over the rubber hose? I just replaced my cable and thought some PO had installed the pipe but I couldn't figure out why. My C22 didn't have a pipe sleeved over the hose. BTW I didn't reinstall the plastic pipe.

Mike Roetter

'83 #3568 SK SR

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Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1768 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2002 : 01:49:14

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Does anyone know the function of the plastic pipe over the rubber hose?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Hi Mike,

I thought it was purely cosmetic, but that's only a hunch ... I wonder if it does perform some function. I sure would like to find out, 'cause I'm about to replace my old plastic pipe with a slightly larger one ... I'd hate to be messing something up.

Buzz Maring, C-25 SK/SR #68, "Freya"

Edited by - on

rclift
Navigator

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USA
152 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2002 : 02:27:44

One thing I'd do differently after replacing the cable on Buzz would be to make sure that there is tension on the cable on the initial winding while it is still on land. When I first let the keel down after launching the extreme weight of the keel caused the cable to pinch against it self so it wouldn't fully drop until I cranked the winch up and down several times. When the cable finally let go it dropped suddenly five or six inches and stopped with a resounding thud. No damage but it was scary. I think it could have been avoided by making sure the cable was wound tightly with some tension in the first place.

Ray Clift
Buzz, 1361
Columbia City, OR

Edited by - on

Mark Rials
1st Mate

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USA
39 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2002 : 07:31:13

Just a little experience to share about having tension on the
cable. Last August I had just a tad amount of tension left
when one of my crew lowered the keel. We left the marina and
during our sail passed over an underwater obstruction which
lifted the keel. After passing it, the keel dropped, the cable
snapped, and damaged the metal pipe holding the pivot ball axel.

So it would seem we swing-keelers have a choice between two evils.
Tension on the cable and damage the lifting mechanism, or slack in
the cable and damage the trunk.

Mark & Pat Rials
C25 # 5450 "Garget"
Homeport Tampa, Fl.

Edited by - on

BCain
Navigator

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USA
103 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2002 : 15:41:29

The plastic pipe or hose is to keep water out of the boat. The bronze pipe is just barely above the water line and in waves or if you are really honking along, water will come up into the pipe. I have had water in the quarter berth after a good days sail even with the hose. Without the hose you might have a good amount of water in the berth even in quiet conditions.

Edited by - on

Mike Vaccaro
1st Mate

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77 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2002 : 14:18:27

It's not abnormal to get some water through the pipe during normal operations. It can happen during keel extension, and it can happen underway in rough seas. The amount of water is generally of no consequence and can easily be removed with a sponge (i.e., a couple of cup fulls at most, even under rough conditions) under the quarterberth or lower drawer of the galley beneath the sink. One thing to consider is throwing a beach towel around the hose area to soak up errant water (especially if it's salt water) to prevent your quarterberth cusion from becoming wet.

Mike Vaccaro on the "Swoose"
84TR/SK #4707

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 06/10/2002 : 04:56:55

Yo, Thanks to all for the help. Piece of cake. Did it solo; used a clamp to hold cable/no need to take out winch. Turning ball not frozen, but still worn nearly in half! Feels good....where's the cold beer? Pivot pin next....

Gary Encore! #685 and Suede Shoes #496

(now I get to do Encore! now that Shoes is finished.....)

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 06/10/2002 : 08:41:15

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Does anyone know the function of the plastic pipe over the rubber hose?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Hi Mike,

I thought it was purely cosmetic, but that's only a hunch ... I wonder if it does perform some function. I sure would like to find out, 'cause I'm about to replace my old plastic pipe with a slightly larger one ... I'd hate to be messing something up.

Buzz Maring, C-25 SK/SR #68, "Freya"
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Pretty certain its cosmetic, however I do think the pipe drops down below the the bottom of the hose. It might serve to keep things stowed in the bilge area from banging it around???

Also, be sure to use two clamps on the hose as it is below the waterline!!!

dw

Duane Wolff
"The Flying Wasp"
C-25, #401 std,sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b1ce23b3127cce9b043565af3d0000004010" border=0>

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