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Genoa Sheet Rigging Hangup

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sanibelle
Deckhand

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USA
22 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/31/2006 : 16:28:14

Hi Guys,

Quite often, the sheet bowline knots hangup on the forward lower shrouds when I tack. I've been thinking of running these shrouds through 1" dia PVC tubes. Would there be any problem unfastening the the shrouds (one at a time) to do this without otherwise supporting the mast? Or might there even be a better solution.
Is this a common problem?

Thanks for any input.

Joe (1980 TR/FK)

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2006 : 16:42:06

No problem. Take enough time to add the rollers AND retune your rig.

Edited by - on

John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2006 : 17:54:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by sanibelle
 Hi Guys,

Quite often, the sheet bowline knots hangup on the forward lower shrouds when I tack. I've been thinking of running these shrouds through 1" dia PVC tubes. Would there be any problem unfastening the the shrouds (one at a time) to do this without otherwise supporting the mast? Or might there even be a better solution.
Is this a common problem?

Thanks for any input.

Joe (1980 TR/FK)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

 
Joe,
There are shroud covers that will help bring your sheets around. You will have to see how high up your sheets are fowling and have covers go at least that high up.
My problem with the covers is twofold.
One, when you have to go forward in a blow or choppy seas you will grab the shrouds, we all do it, and the rollers will....roll. Not safe.
Two, any cover on the shrouds has a tendency to trap water near or on the shrouds. IMO it’s best to leave them uncovered to air dry.
Since you say the “sheet bowline knots” hang up I am going to assume you use two sheets tied on to the clew.
Another approach is to minimize the knots that will get hung up.
Try one continuous sheet that has a [url="http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product/10001/-1/10001/4101/10001/324/323/2"]snap shackle [/url]tied in the middle so there is only one knot, I use a simple overhand and it flows through quite easily. Also try to time your trimming when the knot has cleared the shrouds.
Good luck.

Underlined words are a HOT link.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2006 : 18:17:10

Since I don't change headsails (furling), my continuous line genoa sheet is tied directly to the clew with a simple Cow Hitch/Lark's Head knot which has never budged nor hung up on the shrouds.

Edited by - on

John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2006 : 18:30:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 Since I don't change headsails (furling), my continuous line genoa sheet is tied directly to the clew with a simple Cow Hitch/Lark's Head knot which has never budged nor hung up on the shrouds.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

 
Dons solution with a [url="http://www.scoutxing.com/knots/larks_head/larks_head.htm"]Lark's head knot [/url]is even more fluid.
I only use a shackle because I remove the continuous sheet and tie the furling headsail at the clew with a 1/4" line when not in use.
Being 5'7" I can just reach the clew when the headsail is rolled up. Sun is the enemy of sheets.

Underlined words are a HOT link.

Edited by - John G- on 05/31/2006 18:31:48

Mark Maxwell
Captain

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USA
329 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2006 : 18:41:14

I found that changing my tacking technique corrected most of the hang-ups. If you fall off enough to allow the heads'l to cross on it's own set your main and then tension the jib sheet it works very smooth. If my crew tries to pull the heads'l over with the sheet too soon it hangs. I have pvc rollers just like you mentioned and the knot can and does still hang-up. The delayed set works well. Just my $.02

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2006 : 19:15:04

Mark's method will work, however if you wait until your jib is backwinded before releasing the jib, you will get the same effect without losing point. Not a big deal if your not racing, but if you are those 4 lost boatlengths will come back to bite you.

Edited by - on

crcalhoon
Captain

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USA
303 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2006 : 21:49:16

This month's Good Old Boat has an article on rigging jib sheets with various rope knots to avoid the flogging stainless steel tooth-buster shackle. Coincidentally, I found that pursuant to some instructions I think I found on this web site, I rigged something called a Dutch toggle about a month ago. So far it works great and is the best solution I have yet found for the situation. Now that I've said that, watch the silly thing blow off next week.

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2006 : 11:12:51

I was writing a response yesterday pretty identical to Duane's -- but he said it better (as usual). When I changed my tacking technique to wait until the jib was backwinded so the wind would push the bow into the new tack, it was as though the clouds had parted. I haven't had a sheet hang up on a shroud since -- regardless of knot or hardware. It's amazing what happens when we let nature do the work instead of us forcing the issue.

Brooke

Edited by - Brooke Willson on 06/01/2006 12:29:31

RiverRat
Deckhand

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USA
1 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2006 : 11:21:35

Try a cows hitch with a continuos line.

Edited by - on

PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2006 : 12:58:47

I use rollers as discribed on the forward lowers and connect the sheets with buntline hitches which are more compact. Covering a portion of those lowers with the PVC doesn't appreciably deteriorate the shroud over its useful livetime of 5 years or so in my opinion. If it was closely covered as seen in lifelines then some concern would be warranted. Also I often use the backwind style of tacking the jib. I have several hank on jibs so change up or down as necessary.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2006 : 13:21:55

My cow hitch can hang up, although as discussed, waiting helps. I'm considering going to a single-braid line for the jib sheets (for ease of handling) thereby making a somewhat smaller, softer cow hitch.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2006 : 15:19:21

And never pass up a chance to retune your rig.

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2006 : 12:42:02

The buntline hitch is also recommended by some to replace the larger bowlines.

Edited by - on

sanibelle
Deckhand

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USA
22 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2006 : 13:57:43

Thanks for all the useful info. Little did I know when I bought the boat that the cow hitch would be a deterrent to jamming. I actually cut the existing continuous sheet in half to achieve what I have now.

Joe (1980 TR/FK)

Edited by - on

Heartbeat
Navigator

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USA
161 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2006 : 17:57:46

Just curious about what size sheets you are using?

I have used both 5/16", 3/8", and 7/16 sheets. Seems like the 5/16" with a bowline don't hang up as much as the old ones. I run the bowlines a touch large in case I need to use a jib pole on a reach - that might help as well. Of course, I tend to run big sails, so most of the work may be getting the sail across.

I still have the larger sheets, but my 5/16" are (half season used) Laser main sheets I got from a Laser racer pal. The line is still reasible for handling, I think. At 42' they are a touch long, but my thicker ones were a touch short for going over the spinnaker pole with the 155% on deck. One day I'll figure out the perfect length and cut them down - maybe this season.

-Matt Q in Detroit

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.