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frejoh
Navigator

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USA
116 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/16/2006 : 12:22:22

Is it pretty universal that the 250- or at least the wing keel- needs some ballast forward to handle better? I recall reading about owners who place some number of 50 lb. bags of sand under the vee berth to improve handling, particular weather helm. What do the experts recommend?

Fred Johnson
250 WK #669

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2006 : 12:33:45

Fred,

Unless some battery changes or additional water capacity is added forward, between 250-300 lbs is being added. Lesser amounts if battery moved forward, additional water capacity added or additional batteries are located in V berth locker.

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2006 : 15:03:05

Fred,
I put 6 50#(300#)sand bags wrapped in plastic forward to start. I have slowly been removing them trying to find the right balance for me. As of today, I have 3 50#(150#) bags forward and that seems to work well for me. Keep in mine not all boat setups are the same as Arlyn mentioned.
One of the problems adding that weight forward created was the main companionway sliding hatch started leaking when it rained. The water was running off the aft edge and back forward under the hatch board and dripping in the cabin. This started when I added the weight forward. With the 150# the boat is handling good and the leak has stopped.

You can always add and make adjustment to suit your needs.

Edited by - Tom Potter on 06/17/2006 08:42:25

frejoh
Navigator

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USA
116 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2006 : 05:26:39

Thanks, Tom. I failed to consider the possible effect of changing the overall pitch of the boat. There is enough unexplained water in a sailboat as it is... I visited your website and enjoyed it.

Edited by - on

frejoh
Navigator

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USA
116 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2006 : 05:27:10

Thanks, Tom. I failed to consider the possible effect of changing the overall pitch of the boat. There is enough unexplained water in a sailboat as it is... I visited your website and enjoyed it.

Edited by - on

americanrascal
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
50 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2006 : 17:18:21

Fred:
Like Tom I run about 80 lbs of sand in small easily managed sand bags and then moved my aft battery forward and added one more battery. Our wk now seems well balanced, handles better and the bow actually sits below the water line!It seems to handle a bit better too.
Joe

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2006 : 20:08:36

Hey Joe, if we don't get some rain soon, we'll have to ditch the sand bags just so we can float in the lake!

Edited by - on

frogger
Navigator

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USA
184 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2006 : 06:28:25

Our lake is down 9.1 feet. We just had heavy rains in the area but unfortunately most of it was S & E of the lake. I have 200# in V-berth but I think I'm going to take some or all of it out. Batteries are aft.

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Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2006 : 06:39:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tompotter
 Fred,
I put 6 50#(300#)sand bags wrapped in plastic forward to start. I have slowly been removing them trying to find the right balance for me. As of today, I have 3 50#(150#) bags forward and that seems to work well for me. Keep in mine not all boat setups are the same as Arlyn mentioned.
One of the problems adding that weight forward created was the main companionway sliding hatch started leaking when it rained. The water was running off the aft edge and back forward under the hatch board and dripping in the cabin. This started when I added the weight forward. With the 150# the boat is handling good and the leak has stopped.
You can always add and make adjustment to suit your needs.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Interesting! I took out the battery in the stern and added two group 27 batteries in the bow. The weight distribution has improved the handling tremendously. She points higher and hardly rounds up at all in heavy weather. I have a 2003 WK with 13 gallon water tank also in the bow (full). The interesting part is I was wondering why I got a few drips of water on my table that I never got before. Case closed!

I have noticed my long shaft nissan 5hp (not extra long) is higher in the water and has more chance of sucking air especially if the first mate is up in the bow waiting to hook the mooring line.

I promised to have pictures of my battery installation up long ago, injured my back, will have some time to do it now. Lesson: Don't buy a new dinghy with long oars if you have a back injury. Going back to inflatable with motor.

Edited by - on

kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2006 : 09:13:57

Ya know, I am beginning to wonder if Catalina changed something in the WK in the '06 model year. I have a stock boat, with the small stock battery in the back, no ballast, and the water tank is empty. I sailed in 21 knots of wind last weekend (with 1 reef) and noticed no tendency to round up at all, the handling was just sweet. I sailed in about 15+ with no reef in a race, and we outpointed every similar size boat in the race (the club members are reconsidering their invitation for me to join... ;-).

At what wind speed or situation do these handling problems occur? Is it related to significant waves? (I sail on river which is pretty flat most of the time.)

I am puzzled.

Edited by - on

paulb
1st Mate

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USA
29 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2006 : 13:42:48

Fred, I mounted a 14 gallon fresh water RV tank under the V-berth. Works great.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2006 : 14:29:45

Kevin... the rounding up issues are experienced at greater heeling angles. If the boat is kept under twenty degrees, no hard mouthed character should be felt. Above thirty, it takes a good rudder to hold her.

Most sail with reasonable heel but its the forgivness zone during puffs that usually present the problems. When a puff suddenly drives the tender boat to thirty degrees, it doesn't like that.

I've written a good bit about my theory why the 250 doesn't like it and won't repeat that here. For those who may not have seen that writing, [url="http://stewartfam.net/arlyn/cause_of_weather_helm.html"]theory why the 250 rounds up[/url]

Edited by - on

kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2006 : 15:37:50

That explains it. I keep the boat at 20 to 25 degrees, as you and others have indicated it is fastest there (20 is the number I think).

Thanks.

Edited by - on

americanrascal
1st Mate

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USA
50 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2006 : 17:39:31

Tom:
I know you all are suffering up there.We are here too. I pulled out as I was afraid I wouldn't be able to get out as we drop below 630. We also have shallow water in low levels under the keel in the slip even though the lake remains sailable.

I was able to secure a deep water slip today so after repairs and new running rigging this week I am going to try to launch this weekend ( sans new bottom paint).

Stunning news about the "lost" 2 feet of water--- thats sad and awesome. That impacts all of us!

Joe

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2006 : 18:54:29

I still have 18' under the keel at the dock. We have to loose a lot more water before I ditch the sand bags.

Edited by - on

frejoh
Navigator

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USA
116 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2006 : 10:14:05

Paul- I'm amazed that you and I have the same basic boat, and both arrived at the same name for our vessels: "Pau Hana" It took me forever to find a decent name. I think I'll get 100# of sand and throw it up front. Is it hard to shovel out if too much?

Mahalo and Aloha!

Edited by - on

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