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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Newbie into the slip.

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cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/26/2006 : 12:49:29

Yesterday, my Admiral and I had our first encounter with a heavy crosswind trying to get into our slip. Entering the cove where we are located, the wind was at my back and quite brisk. So my thought was that I would begin my turn upwind of the slip so that I would drift to the starboard on my port turn and enter. Of course since it was my first time, I wasn't quite on target. However, in addition to the wind pushing the boat to starboard, I found that the stern pushed further than the bow, leaving me at a 30 degree angle into the slip an consquently into the wind coming up the cove.

Two other sailboat owners were gracious enough to be there to help me knowing that we are newbies and that the wind was quite brisk. Are there any other techniques that I should have considered? Especially since I found the boat stern seemed to be pushed further faster than the bow? Or did I have the right idea, just the wrong estimate?

Mike
Grand Lake, OK
N.O. Catalina 25 #4849
In my opinion 75% of the earth is water for a reason. That's why I sail.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2006 : 13:18:53

When entering into a slip in a strong crosswind, it helps to have a little more speed than usual, but if you do, you have to shift the engine into reverse and give it enough throttle to stop the boat, so it doesn't hit the dock too hard. It's helpful if someone on the dock will help catch the boat as it comes in. Also remember, you don't have to put the boat all the way into the slip <u>by using the motor</u>. Often you can motor the boat partway into the slip, and then step onto the dock and pull it in the rest of the way by hand. Doing it that way is less likely to scrape or scratch the boat than powering it in all the way.

Edited by - on

PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2006 : 14:07:09

It will take a while to get used to how your boat handles docking in various situations. Hang in there. Sometimes it will be good and sometimes not so good, just live and learn. It's a little hard to visualize this particular situation, and you don't say whether your slip is double or single finger, but generally what works in a crosswind is easying up to the slip into the wind fairly close to the end of the finger and then making a quick pivot turn into the slip, or sometimes you can crab in and let the wind take the bow against the dock as the you stop the boat. Usually, the wind will grab the bow stronger so be alert to having your plans quickly change if a puff gets you or the bow gets on the other side of the wind. Check some books on docking for how to handle different situations. Remember too that you have an OB, so you can adjust the angle of your prop to swing the stern.

Edited by - on

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2006 : 14:18:52

I like keeping the stern into the wind. I use the engine to keep the stern where I want it. It is like front wheel drive in the snow. Keep in mind, there is a limit to the thrust available in reverse.

I like this approach, as you do not have to have any boat speed to have steerage. I use the rudder parrallel to the enginewhwn doing this.

Find a buoy or something in the open and go make several approches till you find what works for you.

The key is only going as fast as you are willing to hit the dock.

Tom.

Edited by - on

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2006 : 14:44:53

Just wanted to add that it is a two fingered slip, so I have deck on both sides. I am also reading the Annapolis Book on Seamanhsip. I have read the docking portion, but the pictures and descriptions make it sound sooo much easier. I will be patient as we can't learn everything right away. In case anyone is wondering we did take the ASA keelboat class, so we didn't just walk up and go.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3494 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2006 : 16:45:24

98% of the time I back into my finger slip regardless of which way the wind blows. As I approach my slip still heading straight, I put the motor into neutral and then as I apss the slip, I put it into reverse. If it is especially windy with wind on my back, I put it into neutral earlier and I use more initial throttle when I kick it into reverse. I found it best, especially when there is significant wind on my back, to head into the dock (in reverse) a little faster than normal. The boat then follow a more predictable track. If I misjudge it, which seem less and less the case, I then put it into forward and try again. But most times, I glide right in, hop off the boat and ...just guid the boat in the rest of the way.

Usually, the wind is a little elss where my slip is located but onece or twice when I was hopping off the boat, the bow was starting to turn away from the slip from the wind and that's when it is the tug of war ...either the boat comes closer to the slip or...I am into the drink. So far, I am 2 for 2 winning out on those rare occasions.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2006 : 17:55:28

When docking in normal situations, slowing waaaay down is the best way to get in, but in a strong crosswind, you have to be bold, and go in faster. The purpose of the keel is to prevent a sailboat from drifting downwind. The faster the boat is going, the more efficient the keel is in preventing the boat from side-slipping. If you go in slow in a strong crosswind, the boat will drift downwind before you can get into the slip. When you're docking in a strong crosswind, you need to be bold, and keep your boatspeed up, not really fast, but as fast as you can go, so that you can still stop the boat with a strong shot of reverse once you get in.

In this situation you have two choices. You can either put the boat into the slip, or you can find a sheltered area, perhaps in the lee of a point of land, and anchor the boat, and stay there until the conditions subside. If you can't get it in the slip, then anchor it and sit there until it's over. If you want to put the boat in the slip in challenging conditions, you need to be bold. If not, then anchoring is a perfectly good, seamanlike way of riding out a strong crosswind. Sometimes, when there's a good party going on ashore, there's a strong incentive to put the boat in it's slip in difficult conditions, but better judgment might dictate that you should anchor out. Docking in a strong crosswind takes more skill than docking in average winds. You should ask yourself whether you believe you have the skill to put the boat in the slip in those conditions. If so, go for it. If not, then find a safe alternative.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2006 : 20:04:54

Come in hot, have your fenders hung and get your spring lines on your winches first. They will brake your forward momentum. (don't worry you really can't get the boat up fast enough to cause any damage doing this - i.e. you won't be doing 10 kts)

Throw the tiller over into the dock as you slow. The fender should take care of any bumping. if you are solo - get forward and attach your bowlines. If not, have someone casually (They will run the first couple of times, but it doesn't have to be a mad dash) get off and hand the lines to someone else on the bow.

This question has been asked a lot. I am going to try and develop a diagram...

Once you are in - do not kill your motor until your bow and all other lines are attached. You never know when you might still need a little sauce out of the motor.

DW

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2006 : 20:18:21

I have two fingers as well. Usually I have a head or tail wind but occasionally I have a beam wind. I have a LARGE fender centered and suspended at my bow,

I have wheels at each corner and only slightly smaller fenders hanging off the four dock cleats (two on each side). It provides a lot of room for error and lets me snug up to a finger without scuffing the hull when entertaining at the dock.

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2006 : 21:24:08

You can build a catcher. Ropes atached to the dock in a V shape so you can plow the bow into the catcher and it will stop the boat before the dock does.

Edited by - on

Alan Clark
Captain

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406 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2006 : 22:19:17

A long time ago a good friend told me= "Never go into the dock faster than the size of the check you can write"

...I found it to be very sound advice..

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2006 : 23:39:35

In my situation we have docks that run 90 degrees to the wind. The slips are on the downwind side of this. I usuallly come in with both sails up and out as far as possible. I'll use the jib to get any more power, if needed. If it is windy I'll have the motor on in reverse to help keep speed in check. As I round into the slip and into the wind, my finger is on the right--same directions I'm coming from, I'll push the boom forwared to port as a brake. This usually stops me pretty well and pushes the boat toward the finger. I'll then step across the cockpit and over the side to attatch the dock lines. I think a lot of people forget that the sail not only makes you go but can be pretty efficient at stopping you too.

Please note: I said step off the boat. I always tell guests on my boat that are helping with this operation, that you never jump off a boat. Newtons laws of motion would put you in the water if you do this. Well not as much with our relativly heavy boats, but most of the dingy like mac's at our lake have no weight.

Edited by - MattL on 06/26/2006 23:47:47

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2006 : 07:39:57

Thanks for all of your input it has been very helpful. And, enlightening as you can see there are all different types of tactics. Had our cove been a little wider, I had considered turning back into the wind and entering that way. I have had more practice at it. However, that would just leave a new skill on the table and I really need to be sure to practice as much as possible. I do like the idea that Frank put forward. I have two extra fenders in the rear quarter berth that are just looking for a home. While I am tied up, I can run a line from cleat to cleat on the bow and place one of the fenders in the center. Then when I come into the slip I have an extra helper to slow the boat before hitting the bow. I could even add heavy duty bungees (should have said snubbers) to help slow the boat quickly without a jarring stop.

Edited by - cat1951 on 06/29/2006 13:09:36

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2006 : 13:57:06

I do it sorta like Duane describes--I have a springline ready on a hook on the outer piling, grab it with a boathook as I enter the slip, and drop it on the winch. Then, I use the engine to stop the boat just before the springline does it, and then shift back into forward to tension the springline, which holds the boat against the dock as I organize the other lines. (You see ferries doing this all the time around here--using a single springline and the engine to hold in position.) I seem to recall that in a cross-wind, the wind pushes my bow over more than the stern (I assume due to the forward position of the mast), but my new bimini might change that a little.

Keep in mind, when maneuvering around a dock at slow speeds (or especially when stopped), a burst on the throttle in forward will push the stern somewhat to starboard, and a burst in reverse will pull it to port--that's "prop-walk". Could that be what was pushing your stern over? You can compensate by anticipating it and turning the engine, and also by gunning it for a quick forward or reverse push and then backing off to let the boat coast.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2006 : 12:46:03

One last bit of advice. When negotiating a situation such as docking in high winds, I always make a practice run to see how the boat will react to the wind. Once I know what the boat is going to do I circle around a make the first try. I also have my dock lines ready to deploy at bow and stern and always use the stern line first since, once cleated, will stop the boat and pull the bow into the dock.

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Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 07/04/2006 : 17:19:08

What I recommend is that you learn how to rig and use a midship spring line. It was recently mentioned in SAIL magazine, but we've been using it for years. On our C25, before we learned the midships trick, with a downwind slip, we'd come into the fairway, turn into the slip with the engine in reverse ticking over, and loop our starboard stern dockline over the starboard winch. (Remember, keep your docklines on the dock, buy others to take with you.) With our larger boat, we've installed a midships cleat on both sides. Run the long midship spring line from the midship cleat under the lifelines, and "lasso" the stern cleat as you come in. Keep the engine ticking over in forward and tie the midships line around the winch a couple of times. The boat will simply snug up to the dock with ONLY this ONE line as long as the engine is in forward. I recommend trying it on a side tie dock or your own when it's not windy. In fact, try it at your own dock before you even go out one day to understand the mechanics of the concept. MIDSHIPS SPRING LINE makes single handing possible and easy docking without anyone having to get off the boat at all. Keep the engine in forward with the spring line, then step off and do the rest of the docklines. Try it, you'll wonder how you ever did without it (like ATMs and microwave ovens!)

Edited by - Stu Jackson C34 on 07/04/2006 17:20:53

PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2006 : 12:05:44

This is a good trick we learned years ago as a kid working on fishing boats. I set Sparky up with midship cleats. They are very handy. You can run the engine in forward to control leaving the dock also without leaving the boat. One problem though, my jib sheets will sometimes catch on them, and back wind the jib on me. So, I put a bungee from the bow pulpit up across the cleat especially when racing so that the sheet can slide over the cleat.

Edited by - on

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2006 : 12:37:04

Thanks again for all the advice. I was talking about this with the PO and he indicated that he had a line across the slip to catch the bow as he came in. He removed it after be got the hang of the docking technique. I am also going to consider the spring line concept as it would be something that can be used at other times when I am not docking in my own slip.

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