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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

swing keel newbie

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jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/03/2006 : 18:16:12

Just made our first sail w/ the new boat...

GREAT EXPERIENCE. The keel winch is stiff, although the keel does lower and raise.

I've got some questions:
- I'm guessing you know when the keel is fully lowered when the cable slackens. Is it OK for the cable to go slack?
- As the winch is stiff, how can I tell when the keel is fully up, can you over crank the winch and snap the cable?
- Is it OK to sail w/ the keel partially down?
- How can I tell how far down to lower the keel on a given day?

Many thanks to everyone for your support and insights.

Good sailing to all!!

Jerry

Jerry

Edited by - jerlim on 07/03/2006 18:17:49

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2006 : 18:47:12

>"- I'm guessing you know when the keel is fully lowered when the cable slackens. Is it OK for the cable to go slack?"

Just a little... just don't keep cranking down (as my son did), or you'll give the cable an opportunity to get wrapped under itself. (hard on the cable, can cause problems later). I usually keep a wee bit of tension in the cable. If the cable humming at speed bothers you, loosen a bit. (hum = moving nicely)

>"- As the winch is stiff, how can I tell when the keel is fully up, can you over crank the winch and snap the cable? "

Listen for the keel coming up... you'll hear it when it comes all the way up into the keel recess and makes contact, you'll also feel a change in the effort on the winch handle. I imagine you could possibly over-crank the winch to the point where you snap the cable if you're strong enough :>). I think you'll feel it when it comes up.

>"- Is it OK to sail w/ the keel partially down?"

I'm sure some folks do in special situations (shoal waters), but in general you want to sail with the keel all the way down.

When fully lowered, the head of the keel (the top) swings up into the keel trunk (the recess) and helps support the keel in a side-to-side direction. Without this hand-in-glove fit, the keel hinges take the side load... and they aren't really designed to do that.

>"- How can I tell how far down to lower the keel on a given day?"

In general, if you're sailing, you want the keel all the way down.

Enjoy!

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2006 : 19:33:26

Hi Jerry, I agree with everything that CB said. I am new to the swing keel as well. I've heard that the reason the winch is stiff is that it is a "stay-put" type winch. It stays where you leave it. I did sail today with it all the way up. I was making a run for home and went wing on wing and figured I'd rather have the lack of drag. I did not notice a difference one way or the other. Cheers and welcome.

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2006 : 22:23:42

Dennis, the danger of sailing "downhill" with the keel up is that should the wind shift, or should you need to change course radically, you're not prepared. The lowered keel makes your boat much more stable and stiff (less tippy). I often motor with the keel up, especially heading out of the creek or heading back in, but I always always lower the keel before I raise sails, and lower sails before I raise the keel.

The winch has a clutch which makes it stiff on the way down. As soon as you begin to raise the keel, the clutch releases and the winch uses a ratchet to hold the keel up. You might want to count the number of turns (remember, left to lower, right to raise -- my son once raised the keel by turning left and I almost broke fingers instinctively tryng to grab the windmilling crank when he let go of it) from bottom to top or vice versa. Then you'll know as you get close to the prescribed number while raising to slow down and stop when the keel is snug. On my boat, it's about 30 turns.

Your question may generate comments here suggesting you leave the keel down, if possible, when anchored/moored/docked. This is a well-rehearsed debate in this forum. The argument for leaving the keel down is that should the pennant (cable) break, a falling keel can crack the trunk and sink the boat. The argument for leaving it up is that it keeps the pennant out of the water, lessening corrosion and fouling from barnacles. The C25 manual also says to leave it up, which is what I do. You can find this debate, as well as other keel maintenance advice (replacing the hangers and pin, etc.) ad infinitum et ad nauseum in the forum archives.

Jerry anad Dennis, enjoy your swingers: they're great boats!

Brooke

Edited by - Brooke Willson on 07/04/2006 08:45:07

StSimon
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 07/04/2006 : 10:56:36

What they said.

Plus one other tidbit. About 20 years ago I was sailing a C22 off the coast of GA in the middle of the night. When we ran aground on a sandbar I quickly jumped inside and began cranking to free us. When I got to the top there was a SNAP and there it went. I had overtightened the cable and the cable broke. Luckily the sandbar prevented any trunk damage. We spent the next few hours rising off the bar then bouncing back onto the bar until the incoming tide rescued us. Safely back onshore and on the trailer we realized that this accident could have happened at any time due to the condition of the cable.

On my C25 I feel confident that with frequent inspections this should never happen again.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 07/04/2006 : 18:06:42

approximately 35 turns is the full swing, remember that the keel does not point straight down when it is lowered.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2006 : 21:39:40

Frank, your boats always look sweet! Even in the workshop (not at home I presume

paul

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2006 : 22:00:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Frank, your boats always look sweet! Even in the workshop (not at home I presume)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I'm guessing that actually IS a photo of Frank's home work shop!

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2006 : 22:51:49

That is my 82, now sold to a Hobie racing family who loves it. The proportions of that shop are about right if instead of a 25 ft sailboat just about filling it up you picture my Sears riding mower just about filling it up... that would be my work shop!

(Behind the door you see a drop light cord disappearing through the floor; into the A-Bomb shelter!)

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 07/05/2006 22:53:39

Don B
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2006 : 07:19:05

A-Bomb shelter???

He's joking...right?

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djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2006 : 07:46:30

Great place to store wine and if you ever REALLY need to use it for its intended purpose, you can stay drunk while dying. Cheers.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2006 : 07:54:48

My house was built in 1956. Wichita was in the top 5 on the Russian hit list. We had LOTS of missile silos around to "protect" Boeing, Beech, Cessna, Lear, McConnell AFB and the combined Boeing/AFB skunkworks related to the shared runways of Boeing and McConnell. In 1958 (I was 8), my father called the only family meeting I remember him calling. We three kids sat at the dinning room table with mom and him; he said "we can build a bomb shelter or we can join a country club, what do you want to do?" I loved growing up at that country club.

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2006 : 08:30:36

Frank that is an awesome paragraph.... I'm sending it to Harv

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2006 : 10:07:46

Great line:

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">..."we can build a bomb shelter or we can join a country club, what do you want to do?" I loved growing up at that country club.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">My thoughts along those lines are: life is short, death long, the future uncertain. Live now. And my globe trotting sister says to eat the desert of life first for similar reasons.

-- Leon Sisson

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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.