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Sail tear and lat/lon questions

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AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/14/2006 : 19:18:45

My 110 jib has an 8" tear near the leech, just above a seam. Can I repair it with sail tape or must I remove the sail and have it patched at a sail loft?

How do these lat/lon numbers translate into degrees, minutes, seconds: 33 41.587
118 10.148

Thanks, and thanks for this very valuable Forum.

Frank Farmer
Long Beach, CA
aa.diver@verizon.net
http://mysite.verizon.net/aa.diver

PRETTY PENNY
'01 C-250 WK, Hull #558

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 07/14/2006 : 20:53:02

Hi Frank
Those numbers don't make sense.
but of interest... Google found this...

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/bickel/DDDMMSS-decimal.html

Or, better still
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/latlong.adp
Paul

Edited by - britinusa on 07/14/2006 20:59:47

coldducks
Captain

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USA
342 Posts

Response Posted - 07/14/2006 : 21:55:03

hi frank,
we noticed a "little" tear in our headsail. when we took the sail down to repair it, we saw many more little tiny tears. we used the sail tape to repair it and it seems to be working fine "for now". we were out in VERY heavy winds on tuesday and it held up pretty well. we know that we need a new headsail, but for right now, it seems to be holding. give it a try. we bought our boat brand new, and we bought every option that they offered us, but they never mentioned the sunbrella option and we never thought of it. won't make that mistake again.. good luck.

Edited by - on

kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 07/14/2006 : 22:19:03

Frank,

That format is in degrees and minutes. So another way to read it is:

33 degrees 41.587 minutes, 118 degrees 10.148 minutes.

To convert to degrees minutes seconds, take the fractional part of the minutes figure (.587 for example) and multiply it times 60. So the first location in degrees minutes seconds would be:

33 41 35.22

And the second

118 10 8.88

There actually should be a minus sign in front of the 118, i.e.

-118 10 8.88

So, this is a location about 5 miles south and slightly east of Long Beach in San Pedro Bay.

Unless you were on the other side of the world. ;-)

Kevin

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 07/14/2006 : 23:05:32

Thanks, Kevin!
And COLDDUCKS: "...when we took the sail down to repair it..." How, exactly, is that done without lowering the mast? And what's a "sunbrella option"?
WM tells me any taping is just temporary; only way to go is remove the sail and have a loft do the repair. But can I remove the sail myself or will I need to hire a rigger? Thanks, mates.

Edited by - on

coldducks
Captain

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USA
342 Posts

Response Posted - 07/15/2006 : 05:04:03

we just dropped the sail, removed it, patched it and then put it back on and raised it up.
the subrella option is when they attach sunbrella material to the edge of the sail so that when it is rolled up it is protected from the sun.

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 07/15/2006 : 06:46:13

Frank, I had the same problem with my jib two years ago, at that point the jib was nine years old. In talking to Doyle sails in Plattsburg N.Y. they recommended retiring the jib and going with new.
Very reasonable price especially in the Northeast in winter. The sunbrella material was included as part of the deal and matched the main sail cover color. I had sent the jib up to them for repair and they found other area's that needed attention, torn stitching etc. Not economically repairable.

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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966 Posts

Response Posted - 07/15/2006 : 12:33:15

COLDDUCKS, when you say:
"...we just dropped the sail, removed it, patched it and then put it back on and raised it up..."
How, SPECIFICALLY, did you do that? The only lines coming out of the mast are the main halyard and a jib line that isn't being used. I haven't a clue how to "drop" the jib and remove it. I'll give CDI a ring and maybe they can fax me instructions.

Edited by - on

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 07/15/2006 : 19:12:34

Frank, removing the Jib from the CDI furler is easy.
You need to unfurl the sail completly.

On top of the turning drum of the furler is a halyard line that attaches to the tack of the sail. That line is normally passed between the tack and a shackle on top of the drum so that is acts as a block-n-tackle to allow easy tightening of the sail on the furler.
The other end of that line is tied to the top of the sail.

The line routes from the tack, through the shackles on the drum, then up the slot on the front of the furler, over the pulley wheel on top of the furler at the masthead and then down to the head of the sail.

Ok, here's how you remove the sail.
a) Unfurl the sail completly.
b) Untie the halyard line that is attached to the tack of the sail.
c) Release the line from the two shackles but don't let it go.
d) Tie a temporary line to the end of the furler line. This temporary line needs only be strong enough to pull the sail up.
e) now allow the sail to come down and the end of the line will take up the temporary line to the top of the furler.
f) As the sail is brought down it's a good idea to put it directly into it's bag. Just ensure it doesn't go over the side and get wet.
g) When you have the head of the sail in hand, then you can untie the furler halyard line from the head and tie it to a shackle on the furler drum.
f) Now tie the temporary line on the other shackle of the furler durm such that the two lines are reasonably taught (so they don't get wrapped around the furler.

When you want to put the sail back up here's how.

a) untie the furler halyard line and ensure is it not wrapped around the furler.
b) tie it to the head of the sail.
c) Thread the bolt line of the sail into the furler track.
d) Untie the temporary line from the other shackle and start to pull it to raise the sail.
f) As the sail rises, feed the bolt line into the furler track.
h) As the sail nears the mast head, you should be able to reach the bottom of the furler halyard line that is tied to the temporary line. Untie the two and stow the temp line. DONT let go of the furler halyard line! (if you do you'll have to lower the mast or go up the mast to retrieve it)
i) feed the furler halyard line through the first shackle and continue to pull down on the line to finish raising the sail.
j) During all of this, ensure the furler halyard line is not wrapped around the furler (using a pair of binocs makes it easier.)
k) When the sail is at the top of the furler, tie of the line on the first shackle with a half hitch.
l) Now to tighten the sail by pulling the tack down towards the drum.
m) thread the halyard through the second shackle on the furler drum then up to the tack of the sail, and back again through the same shackle. Do this a few turns so that you can use it as a purchase to pull down the tack.
NOTE: Pull the tack down don't pull the line up!

Additional gotchas:
When you originally unfurl the sail, the furler control line (the one that goes aft to the cockpit) should be almost fully wound onto the drum. Make sure that same number of turns are on the drum before you pull the sail up again

The steel cover around the furler drum is fixed to the base of the furler system and to the deck plate. The drum is free to rise up. If the control line gets jammed between the cover and the drum there is risk of wear on the line.
It's also a good idea to keep your fingers out from any gap that might appear between the steel cover and the bottom of the drum when it raises up, that cover is sharp enough to do some serious damage to mear flesh and bone.

You should find it easy to do. We now trail the boat with the sail in it's bag. So we have to put it on and take it off every trip. It only takes a few minutes.

Paul.

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 07/16/2006 : 13:31:38

God bless you, Paul, and my deepest thanks for your very detailed and specific instructions; I shall follow them to the letter and hope I don't eff it up. Your instructions should be in every 250 owners manual. I hope Mr. Butler is lurking on these posts.

However..."d) Tie a temporary line to the end of the furler line. This temporary line needs only be strong enough to pull the sail up.
e) now allow the sail to come down and the end of the line will take up the temporary line to the top of the furler."
The "furler line/halyard" is threaded thru a groove in the foil. How can I tie a messenger line to its bitter end that will allow the line to slide up the groove? What diameter the messenger line? What knot to tie it to the furler halyard?
Or am I completely misunderstanding your instructions?

Edited by - on

britinusa
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Response Posted - 07/16/2006 : 14:05:51

Frank, the temporary line need not be in the groove! It will naturally try to lay in the groove perhaps, but it can just hang out the side. Only the actual Furler haylard line (with it's metal ferule) lays in the groove.
As you lower the sail, the halyard will hang down from the mast head end of the furler to the head of the sail.

As soon as you try it, it will come clear.

Paul.

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 07/16/2006 : 14:12:59

Frank,
Here's a [url="http://www.sailcdi.com/sailpdf/FF2%20manual%204.04.pdf"]Link to a CDI Furler manual[/url], scroll down to pages 13 and 14.

Note; your messenger line will need to be a few feet longer than your forestay so when the sail comes down you have enough messenger to tie off to something while your repairing your sail. Small 1/4 nylon will work very good. Can be smaller just make sure its strong enough so not to break as you pull the sail back up.

Look at the illustration on page 4. Look at items H and K. You will want to tie your messenger line to "K" The knot will ride up on the outside the furler as item "H" slides up in the slot on the furler as the sail comes down.

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 07/16/2006 : 14:22:48

It's getting clearer, guys, but: "Only the actual Furler haylard line (with it's metal ferule) lays in the groove."
What and where is the "metal ferule"?

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 07/16/2006 : 14:39:35

Found it in the CDI manual! Okay, mates, I'm a-gonna pull her down in the morning and take it to a local loft for repair. Hey, without you guys I'd be looooooooooooooooooooooost!

Edited by - on

BAJAMAN
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 07/21/2006 : 23:02:23

Frank,

I woulkd have the sail repaired at a loft, unless you will be replacing. Since you are down in Long Beach, try T&A Sails in Wilmington. My sister in law is the sailmaker there. She will also do the repair. She is well know for her outstanding work. Tell the owner (Mike Taylor) Carlos sent you and he will take care of you.

Mike's prices are very reasonable for repairs and new sails, and the workmanship is top notch. There is a statment about the loft in the latest issue of Attitudes and Lattitudes. Mike is on the cover on a sailboat during the Ensenada race.

Good luck!!

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2006 : 00:23:59

Called T/A, got a recorded message, left a message, call never returned. So I went to Ullman on Marina Drive. 3 days, 98 bucks and the job's done, jib re-installed. And BTW, all the loft's per hour labor price is the same: $75.00.

Edited by - on

BAJAMAN
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2006 : 11:42:22

Frank, sorry to hear about your call not being returned. I 'll have to remind Mike about returning calls. Summer is a very busy time for them, but no excuse for not returning calls!

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mday
Navigator

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197 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2006 : 00:38:24

Frank,

I had a minor tear in my headsail and decided to have some sunbrella sewn along the edges to provide some sun protection and extend the life of the sail a bit. I know this is a "bandaid", but it's held up well for a year and looks like it will go a bit longer before a new headsail is required. The tear was patched with sail tape that is underneath the sunbrella material. So far, it's held up under some fairly windy conditions.

Cost to do this was a little over $200 .... much less than a new headsail.

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