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Manuverability

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frich
Captain

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USA
418 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/10/2002 : 07:23:50

Finally splashed down last week, and this being my first sailboat a few items have arisen.

I have a long shaft 88 9.9 Yamaha and I find when piloting I must reach down pretty far to control the tiller ( cavitation plate on motor is just below the waterline). In doing this i lose visability out over the Bow of the boat.

I also removed the middle rail on the stern pulpit in order to turn the tiller more freely.

Has anyone come with any improvements to the outboard setup, so as to control the boat better.

Thanks for the replies!

Frank Rich
84 C25 SK

Edited by - on

n/a
deleted

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163 Posts

Response Posted - 06/10/2002 : 08:43:42

It is quite a juggling trick, that's why I usually have the motor set to go straight and steer with the rudder. This way I only have to lean down over the stern to change the gearshift and play with the throttle.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 06/10/2002 : 08:45:24

Frank,

We use a Johnson 9.9, 1979. For the most part, our maneuverability is done with the tiller on the boat. I am not sure what you are referring to as the second rail on the pulpit as my 78 c-25 doesn't have one. Have you thought of a remove throttle? They are occasionally for sail on ebay and would solve your speed problem entirely, as for your maneuverability....we only have to turn the outboard on very rare occasions, 99.9% of the time the prop is amidships.

dw

Duane Wolff
"The Flying Wasp"
C-25, #401 std,sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b1ce23b3127cce9b043565af3d0000004010" border=0>

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 06/10/2002 : 10:12:24

My '95 Yamaha 9.9 4-stroke must have a longer tiller than yours? When in the lowered positioned my tiller handle just touches the top edge of the transom. In tight quarters I turn the boat and motor tillers in unison which gives me a <i>really</i> tight turning radius.

Edited by - on

Steve
1st Mate

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USA
87 Posts

Response Posted - 06/10/2002 : 11:28:39

Frank,

I installed inboard controls for my 8hp Nissan. You can control the throttle & gearshift from the cockpit. I use the tiller to steer, but coming into the slip you can throttle up, down, or put it in reverse without hanging over the transom. It cost about $250 for the controls, but was well worth it.

Another thing I just did was replace the stock prop with a high thrust, or heavy load propeller. I've only had the boat out once since then, but it really helps maneuver the boat. It gets the boat moving forward quicker, to give you steerage, and when coming into the slip I can throw it in reverse and the boat STOPS. I motored up the river the other day at 5.5 knots so I don't seem to have lost any speed.

Steve
87 WK TR

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 06/10/2002 : 13:41:44

After some thought, I recall a boat in a nearby fleet that had a tiller extender on their outboard. I have no clue where to even look for one, I just know they exist.

dw

Edited by - on

jellyfish
Navigator

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USA
171 Posts

Response Posted - 06/10/2002 : 15:20:35

try West Marine or BoatUS, they both have them

Edited by - on

dunphy
Deckhand

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USA
12 Posts

Response Posted - 06/10/2002 : 23:59:08

Steve, I would love to see how they strung the "remote control" for your motor. I've been thinking about doing the same, but do not have any other C-25's around to see how to do it

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2002 : 01:42:55

What I've discovered about the C25(I have a SR/FK) is that they are very manueverable, yet also have a lot of inertia so one must be careful when coming into the dock. I use the boat's inertia to help me bring the boat in. To enter my slip, I have to turn 180 degrees from the main channel. When coming in, I motor at the slowest speed possible(slow idle) and before I make my U-turn I put the motor in nuetral and coast through the turn. When the turn is completed, I'm still moving forward into my slip and still in nuetral, but most of the inertial speed is gone. As I float into the slip, I calmly grab the dockline eye from the dock and slip it on my winch to keep the bow from hitting the dock. As the boat is still inching gently forward, I again calmly step off the boat and walk along the dock to where the front of the boat will end up and slip the bow lines onto their cleats. Once in a while as I walk towards the front I may have to give a shroud a tug to straighten the boat, but generally the boat comes in nice and quiet. After all eyes are on cleats, I walk back and shut the motor off. When coming in I never have to throw the motor into reverse, but sometimes I may have to give it a little forward if the wind takes some of my inertia so you should always keep your motor running. All this was learned through practice. Each time I come in I know where I need to be in the channel, the speed I need to be at, the point where I put the motor in nuetral, when to start my turn, the proper tiller angle when turning,...etc.

In my marina, I watch the other boaters/sailors and it seems like everyone likes to come in hot, then throw the motor into full reverse while their crew is trying to fend off the boat next them at the same time bracing for the thud when they ram the dock. One guy has a newer Macgregor 26X with the 50hp motor and he doesn't have a clue about motoring and is quite scary to watch as he comes into the dock. On some boats I've seen the Captain send a reluctant Admiral to the bow with a boathook to help save their boat or someone elses. I feel sorry for these distressed looking spouses, with their jousting lances in hand, inching their way to the foredeck like a prisoner going to the chair, because if anything goes awry, they are going to be where the collision occurs and most Admirals don't like to be the sacrificial offering when pulling into the slip. All this can be avoided by just going as slow as you can when docking and leave the racing to the open water.

Don Lucier, North Star
C25 SR/FK

Edited by - dlucier on 06/11/2002 01:54:29

Edited by - on

frich
Captain

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USA
418 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2002 : 08:02:27

Duane

On my 84 C25 there were three stern rails. maybe the previous owner put in the middle one, but I have since removed ito get better manueverability from the tiller.

You also state that you rarely turn the outboard and use only the tiller. In my slip however I must back out and then make a 90 degree turn to exit the marina. I will have to try this under various conditions to see if it can be done with the rudder only.

Thanks for your input

Frank

Frank,

We use a Johnson 9.9, 1979. For the most part, our maneuverability is done with the tiller on the boat. I am not sure what you are referring to as the second rail on the pulpit as my 78 c-25 doesn't have one. Have you thought of a remove throttle? They are occasionally for sail on ebay and would solve your speed problem entirely, as for your maneuverability....we only have to turn the outboard on very rare occasions, 99.9% of the time the prop is amidships.

dw

Duane Wolff
"The Flying Wasp"
C-25, #401 std,sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b1ce23b3127cce9b043565af3d0000004010" border=0>

[/quote]

Edited by - on

Rick Heaverly 86 C25 5382
Navigator

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Belize
206 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2002 : 08:02:32

I have a 88 yamaha with remote controls mounted in the cockpit. (best addition to my boat so far, an auto pilot is next!) I only turn the outboard to assist the tiller when backing into my slip. All other times I use the tiller to steer.

Rick Heaverly
"Invictus"

Edited by - on

frich
Captain

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USA
418 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2002 : 08:13:58

Don

My better half is already complaining on how difficult it is to board the boat from the dock and move aft. Dont think i would want her to man the bow when pulling in.

Frank Rich
84 C25 SK

What I've discovered about the C25(I have a SR/FK) is that they are very manueverable, yet also have a lot of inertia so one must be careful when coming into the dock. I use the boat's inertia to help me bring the boat in. To enter my slip, I have to turn 180 degrees from the main channel. When coming in, I motor at the slowest speed possible(slow idle) and before I make my U-turn I put the motor in nuetral and coast through the turn. When the turn is completed, I'm still moving forward into my slip and still in nuetral, but most of the inertial speed is gone. As I float into the slip, I calmly grab the dockline eye from the dock and slip it on my winch to keep the bow from hitting the dock. As the boat is still inching gently forward, I again calmly step off the boat and walk along the dock to where the front of the boat will end up and slip the bow lines onto their cleats. Once in a while as I walk towards the front I may have to give a shroud a tug to straighten the boat, but generally the boat comes in nice and quiet. After all eyes are on cleats, I walk back and shut the motor off. When coming in I never have to throw the motor into reverse, but sometimes I may have to give it a little forward if the wind takes some of my inertia so you should always keep your motor running. All this was learned through practice. Each time I come in I know where I need to be in the channel, the speed I need to be at, the point where I put the motor in nuetral, when to start my turn, the proper tiller angle when turning,...etc.

In my marina, I watch the other boaters/sailors and it seems like everyone likes to come in hot, then throw the motor into full reverse while their crew is trying to fend off the boat next them at the same time bracing for the thud when they ram the dock. One guy has a newer Macgregor 26X with the 50hp motor and he doesn't have a clue about motoring and is quite scary to watch as he comes into the dock. On some boats I've seen the Captain send a reluctant Admiral to the bow with a boathook to help save their boat or someone elses. I feel sorry for these distressed looking spouses, with their jousting lances in hand, inching their way to the foredeck like a prisoner going to the chair, because if anything goes awry, they are going to be where the collision occurs and most Admirals don't like to be the sacrificial offering when pulling into the slip. All this can be avoided by just going as slow as you can when docking and leave the racing to the open water.

Don Lucier, North Star
C25 SR/FK

Edited by - dlucier on 06/11/2002 01:54:29
[/quote]

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2002 : 10:14:33

Frank - Don has the right idea! As I've said before, the boat should come into the slip like a butterfly with sore feet landing on a lawn!
If you have to hit reverse y've come in waaayyy too hot!
Derek

Edited by - on

jellyfish
Navigator

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USA
171 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2002 : 11:12:38

dlucier and the other are 100% correct! when docking the slowest is the bestest! we dock in a canel behind the house. it is only 50ft wide. when I come in, I slowly center the boat in the canal and turn the tiller and the motor all the way over and give a short blast at full throttle. she spins like a top on her own axis. after the turn she drifts right over to the mooring lines.

Edited by - on

Steve
1st Mate

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USA
87 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2002 : 12:28:10

Peter,

I installed the remote controls myself and it's pretty simple really. There's a control box that's I mounted on the starboard side of the cockpit. There's two levers to control the gearshift & throttle. The cables go out through the drain hole, along with the gas line from the fuel tank. The brackets, attachments, etc. were made specifically for the Nissan so it all fit on the engine.

Controls are probably available for whatever motor you have. Just contact the local dealer, and then try to find them cheaper on the internet.

It's a good enhancement for your boat. For me, controlling the throttle wasn't too bad because the "arm" stuck up anyway, but I had to really hang off the transom to get to the gearshift. I've got a tough place to dock, and it really helps.

Steve

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2002 : 13:00:55

"For me, controlling the throttle wasn't too bad because the "arm" stuck up anyway, but I had to really hang off the transom to get to the gearshift." - Steve

On my 8hp Mercury LS, the gear shift is integrated with the throttle on the outboard tiller arm. When the throttle handle is rotated one way, the motor goes in forward gear. As it is rotated in the opposite direction, it goes through neutral then to reverse. This allows me one handed operation of the outboard with my left hand and operation of the boat's tiller with my right when I need the increased manueverability.

As for the gear shift lever being a bit of a reach, I knew someone who had a regular length outboard that was also a bit of a reach and he put a tiller extension on the outboard throttle handle to extend it, but he still had to reach way down for the gear lever. To solve this problem he took a piece of PVC pipe and cut two slots about 1 1/2" long on each side of one end of the pipe. Next he put a piece of rubber(old bike tube) over the gear shift lever so when the pipe was clamped on it would not slip. The slotted end of the PVC pipe was then slipped over the lever and secured with hose clamps. The slots allow the pipe to close around the lever. On the top of the pipe he put a PVC end cap on to dress it up a little. The installation looked original since the PVC pipe was the same color as the motor. The best part was he solved his gear shift problem for under $2.00.

Don Lucier, North Star
C25 SR/FK

Edited by - on

dunphy
Deckhand

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USA
12 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2002 : 18:19:30

Thanks Steve!

Did you have alot of cable left over, or could you adjust it. I assume your controls were placed near the transom on the starboard side

Pete

Edited by - on

Don Hood
1st Mate

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30 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2002 : 22:19:55

I suppose this is the time to share a few things about my Nissan 9.9. I bought it a year ago and had trouble keeping it idling. I took it to one "authorized service dealer" and he charged us $90 for telling us that it was "bad gas." Because I had trouble keeping the motor running coming into the slip it made the event rather exciting. I decided to get the cockpit controls and take it to another dealer. Both of these dealers were 30 plus miles away. I bought the motor from Boat US but they don't service. Anyway, the control box was almost too big for the cockpit but I was going to live with it. The cables were long, but I was going to live with that. The instruction book that came with the hook-up to the motor was absolutely worthless, the pictures didn't even match up. After four hours of wrangling with all of this, the cables did not work with the motor hook-up. I WAS NOT HAPPY. I had to restore everything so I could launch my boat. When I got her in the water, the motor still had idling problems. About a week later it dawned on me that if I just upped the down side of the idle with the adjustment screw that I should be okay. I was. It now works fine. Why did it take a non-mechanic to figure out the problem that two expert service people couuld not.

I wrote to Nissan and he said that I had the right parts. I question that. I brought everything back to Barrington Marine in Lake Barrington, IL and they were not going to take back the parts and were extremely rude. I told the manager/owner he should think of another line of work. They ended up taking back the parts with the emphasis that I would pay the shipping and the restocking fee. We will see what happens. All of the parts cost me about $441. I am not happy with Nissan or Barrington Marine.

I am now happy with my motor since I was able to figure out the solution. Because of this it is less exciting coming into the dock.

Thanks for letting me vent.

Don on Namaste' #1929 swk

Edited by - on

Steve
1st Mate

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USA
87 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2002 : 10:00:16

Don,

I bought my controls through the local Tohatsu (same as Nissan) dealership. The dealer was very helpful, and stepped me through the installation (he even made copies of diagrams from his service manual). Also, the cables were available in different lengths, so I took some basic measurements to get the right ones. Installation fit just like the diagrams, the whole thing cost $250 and three years later it still works fine.

Sorry you had a bad experience with this. Sounds like your dealer is a jerk. Installing the controls should have no bearing on how the engine runs. I hope he did not tell you that the controls would make the engine idle better.

Steve.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2002 : 14:54:28

Frank: One more thing about maneuvering... Don't push the tiller past about 45 degrees either way--it just "stalls" the rudder (turning it into a paddle instead of a foil). You'll find that, even at very slow speeds, a gentle hand on the tiller can give you very sharp turns, even under power. If you push it too far, the boat will plow ahead.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette "Passage" in SW CT

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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
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