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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

tall vs standard

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bnimble
Deckhand

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3 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/22/2006 : 11:07:56

Rookie looking for trailer sailor, I have pretty much settled on Cat 25 not sure if I will be able to raise tall mast by myself. Advise and Opinions please

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2006 : 11:31:41

Was it Archimedes who said "give me a long enough lever and I will move the Earth"? It is all about mechanical advantage. There are few places where a tall rig is needed.

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2006 : 16:26:09

And Canyon Lake is one of them...
Derek

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frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2006 : 19:12:06

Not the times I was there and on the wheel!!!!!

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Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2006 : 19:48:12

If you're reasonably fit, you can raise the tall mast by yourself using a gin pole -- or the boom as a gin pole -- and the mainsheet as block and tackle. There are several methods shown in the tech tips for how to do this. I've raised and lowered the mast many times by myself. I do find that it's harder now than it was eight years ago!

I think there's only two feet of difference between the standard and tall rig, so the weight differential isn't that significant.

If you're in a place (like here on the Chesapeake) where there the winds are often light, the tall rig is a help. The major drawback of the TR is the lower-by-one-foot boom, which makes a bimini difficult (but not impossible). You also have to duck more.

Brooke Willson

Edited by - Brooke Willson on 07/22/2006 19:51:06

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2006 : 20:51:13

The tall rig is substantially heavier. Not only is it 2 feet higher but the extrusion is bigger and heavier. A sturdy a-frame would make raising it pretty easy.

Tom.

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Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2006 : 23:39:36

Tom's right -- I forgot about the difference in the extrusion. The most significant issue dealing with the mast singlehandedly isn't raising it per se: it's stepping the mast. If you lower the mast forward, using the boom as a gin pole, the mast wants to spring off the tabernacle when detached because most of the mast is forward of the bow pulpit. That's the great advantage of lowering to aft, but then you can't use the boom as a gin pole.

Brooke

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2006 : 20:32:08

I'll get some rebuttals here, but if you're a rookie sailor and want to trailer-sail regularly, I'd suggest you consider starting with something smaller (and lighter)--maybe in the 22-23' range. The whole process of setting up will be surprisingly easier, as will launching and retrieving. (Between 15 and 30', a sailboat "doubles in size" every three feet!) I'll estimate that getting a 22-footer into the water takes 30 minutes, while a 25-footer takes an hour plus (and quite a few more "oh $h!t" moments). I'd hate to see you turned off from sailing before you get into it because of the difficulty of rigging your boat and getting it into and out of the water!

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 07/24/2006 07:54:36

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2006 : 06:58:21

No rebuttal here, Dave. I know we have some treasured colleagues here who trailer their C25s regularly, but I can't imagine it. Even when I have one of my sons helping me, stepping and raising the mast, bending the sails, and getting the running rigging running is a lot of work. When I had a 17' Mobjack, it took me about 15 minutes.

IMHO, it seems that the C25 is trailerable, realistically, in the sense that you can pull it on and off a trailer between extended times in the water -- at the beginning and end of a season or an extended vacation. To do that everytime for a one-day or even weekend sail boggles my mind and back.

But then, maybe I'm just old and lazy. Like you, I suspect that some of our trailer gorillas will weigh in to explain how, for them, all the work isn't that bad. In the meantime, I'll appreciate my permanent slip and the travelift in Urbanna!

Brooke

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2006 : 07:51:49

Thanks, Brooke--as resident curmudgeon for the forum, I appreciate the backup.

But now back to Jack in Texas... What are your objectives for a trailer-sailer? Do you envision launching and retrieving every time out, leaving her in for extended periods, and/or taking her to distant, exotic venues? Where do you plan to use her? What's your tow vehicle? What other criteria led you to the C-25? I think I speak for the folks on this site by saying we're more interested in people enjoying sailing than in people buying a C-25 if it turns out to be the wrong boat. But it might be just the right boat.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 07/24/2006 09:43:56

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2006 : 08:42:26

Hi Dave and Brooke, I agree with yous guys if you are talking about a day sail, but the thing I am liking more and more about the 25 is that if I want to sail for a week in lake superior (sp) I can trailer it there and sail for a week insted of sailing for a week to get there.

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djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2006 : 08:44:27

Maybe lake superior is not a good example becasue it would be a great week sailing there so lets say I want to visit my Dad in the keys for the month Februrary, and sail around the keys, I'd rather have the 25 over the 22. Cheers.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2006 : 11:00:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by djn
 ...I'd rather have the 25 over the 22. Cheers.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yup--that's why I'm asking Jack the questions above. What does he mean by "trailer sailing"? As I recall, you, Dennis, keep your boat in the water except when you want to take it somewhere--right? For that, the C-25 can be a great choice--just about the biggest little sailboat you can do that with, and probably the best buy--especially with this group behind you! But sometimes a "rookie" isn't fully aware of what he's getting into...

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 07/24/2006 11:03:10

DaveC25
Navigator

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USA
152 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2006 : 11:07:45

I trailer my boat regularly, keeping it beside my house when not in use. I will say that to set it up and take it down is alot of work. But it takes about 45 minutes for me to set her up now that I have a routine.

Eventually I will put her in a slip, but right now I am still working on her and it is very convienent to have her within reach of my air compressor hose, but still be able to use her when I have the time. Plus around here (Melbourne, Florida) the boat slips cost a premium because alot of them were damaged a few years ago by the hurricanes. So realistically you're looking at ~ $300 a month minimum to keep her in the water, and I only get to use her about twice a month at the most.

Of course, if she was in the water already, maybe I would use her more, but who knows? It's not alot of effort to get her ready for me, but for some people it might be. Everyone is different as to what they consider hard work.

One good thing about setting up the rigging regularly is I know the condition of every inch of my rigging, and changing masthead parts is no big deal since it's down most of the time.

One thing I will say is that even though the Catalina 25 is a "trailerable" boat, it is still very heavy. I use an F-350 dually so it's no problem, but you must seriously consider the type of vehicle you're towing with. I wouldn't recommend towing it with any front drive vehicle (such as minivan or whatever), and would hesitate towing with a light truck (like a 1500 or F-150) The boat and trailer together weigh in at ~7000-8000 lbs.

When I first bought her I towed her home with a Nissan Titan and that thing was sweating. Most vehicles will get it rolling, but the stopping and turning are where you have to be careful. I moved it once around my property with my Jeep Wrangler and that was a nightmare. Even in 4WD low it was just doing a 4-wheel burnout, the boat not budging on the grass. I hooked up my F-350 and put it in 4wd low, and it basically moved it where it needed to be at idle. So the vehicle makes a big difference.

I got a copy of the original flyer for the Catalina 25, and they showed it being towed and launched by some Buick Sedan from the '70's. Were the old cars that heavy and strong? I guess they were. :) It's hard to remember.

I guess I've rambled on here, but in conclusion I will say that just be aware that towing a 25' sailboat is different from towing a 25' powerboat. You need more vehicle, and also a much deeper boat ramp! Although we have about 5 boat ramps in my area, I can only launch at one, because it's the only one that is deep enough and also doesn't have a non-opening bridge between me and the deeper water.

Good luck!

-DaveC25

Edited by - DaveC25 on 07/24/2006 11:13:09

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2006 : 11:49:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I got a copy of the original flyer for the Catalina 25, and they showed it being towed and launched by some Buick Sedan from the '70's. Were the old cars that heavy and strong? I guess they were. :) It's hard to remember.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My parents gave me their cast-off 1973 Buick Centurion. 453 c.i. engine, 9 mpg. There was absolutely no difference in the feel of that car at 85 mph from 45 mph -- many was the time I would be cruising down I-64, my mind a million miles away, and look down and be approaching 90. I have no doubt that car could have towed a house, and probably still have gotten 9 mpg.

Dave, I think your questions are precisely germane. But I thought I was the resident curmudgeon, as well as Swing-Keel Defender-In Chief. I'll happily share those duties.

Brooke

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2006 : 13:15:08

I learned to drive in a '73 Buick Riviera with a 455 (my parents had two of these). I would think that it could tow a C25 as well as win it's class at the tractor pull!

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djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2006 : 15:12:47

Hey Don, was that the boat tail modle? I thing the boattail Riviera is the height of American car design in the 70s and 80s. Cheers.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2006 : 15:27:42

Yep...a boat tail and a mile long hood. My Dad thought they were the bomb! That's why he had two at the same time, one for him and one for Mom.

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bnimble
Deckhand

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3 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2006 : 15:28:37

First a Sincere Thanks to All , As far as my ideas, A home slip and Trailer to lakes and coastal destinations for no less than 7-10 days each adventure. Maybe 5 trips a year. (maybe) Truck F-350 4x4 diesel swb single rear tires. Am very fit for 52 , I think I would miss the head room and pray for a breeze. Keel choice is my next consideration shoal draft has advantages for me. From what Ive read and heard Swing keel cables hum. I dont know first hand, I am connecting with locals for lessons or at least a ride. Thanks again. Jack

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djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2006 : 15:50:30

Hi Jack, yep the little cable hums if you leave a little tention on it. Slack it off and it will stop. I sort of like the hum for a bit if I am just day sailing. I am 51 this year and need to stupe inside the cabin but I have become accustom to it. When I am at anchorage or the slip, I pop the top and enjoy the view. I think you will find the c25 a great boat for your needs. It is the biggest little boat I've ever seen. CHeers.

Hi Don, Yep, that's the one. That is a natural low rider. I can see it in high gloss black cherry and lowered about three inches. A set of headers sticking out the sides and you're ready to go. Cheers.

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StSimon
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2006 : 18:37:45

We have towed our SK hundreds of miles numerous times with a Land Cruiser. Sure the mpg dropped from 12 to 9 but it handles the load like a champ. Cautious driving should be no brainer when pulling this kind of load. We have never (knock on teak) had any issues to date.

Good luck on your choice.

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Lightnup
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1016 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2006 : 19:10:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 Was it Archimedes who said "give me a long enough lever and I will move the Earth"?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No, I think that was either the guy who founded Caterpillar or John Holmes.

Edited by - Lightnup on 07/24/2006 19:12:14

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