Association Forum - Loose foot main question

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Loose foot main question

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

AADIVER
Admiral

Member Avatar

USA
966 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/24/2006 : 13:24:21

Does a loose footed main put additional stress on the mainsail track slugs? One of my slugs at the luff end of a batten broke, but only after I loose footed my main. Thanks.

Frank Farmer
Long Beach, CA
aa.diver@verizon.net
http://mysite.verizon.net/aa.diver

PRETTY PENNY
'01 C-250 WK, Hull #558

Edited by - on

Heartbeat
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
161 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2006 : 13:53:57

I don't think that my loose footed main puts any more load on the kerf than my footed main. With that being said, my loose footed main uses a bolt rope and came from the sailmaker that way.

Full battens load those slugs pretty hard. I have usually seen multiple slugs or a special full batten slug that is much larger.

How did it break? What part of the slug broke?

-Matt Q.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2006 : 13:57:07

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2006 : 14:53:32

Scuze my ignance, but what does a loose footed main do better than a footed main. I think mine is loose footed as there is extra "bag" of material along the bottom of the sail. Cheers.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2006 : 15:02:31

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by djn
 Scuze my ignance, but what does a loose footed main do better than a footed main. I think mine is loose footed as there is extra "bag" of material along the bottom of the sail. Cheers.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Dennis,

That extra bag at the bottom of your sail might be a shelf foot, which allows the sail to develop more power, but the foot of the sail is attached to the boom, probably via a boltrope, along the entire foot of the sail. It is not the same as a loose footed main, which gets it name because its only attachment point on the boom is at the tack and clew. The rest of the foot hangs loose, hence the name, "loose footed".

As far as performance goes between a loose footed and footed main, it is claimed that one has greater adjustment capabilities with a loose footed main.

Edited by - dlucier on 07/24/2006 15:06:17

djn
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2006 : 15:11:13

Hi Don, ok I get it now. Yes I have a boltrope attaching my foot to the boom. CHeers.

Edited by - on

StSimon
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2006 : 17:50:20

I know Duane said NO to this quetion but I'm not so sure.

How can it it not put more pressure on the slugs? When you remove the boltrope from the equation it would have to put more pressure on the slugs. Is this stinkin thinkin?

I don't loose foot but have no issues with it. I might try it sometime. I just don't understnd how once the friction of the boltrope is removed it could not put more pressure on at least the lowest slug.

I know this ain't rocket scientry but anyone care to explain how it doesn't?

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2006 : 04:04:14

You are dealing with completely different forces.

First, the tack of the main is still attached via the clevis pin. So that would still absorb more load than the slugs at the foot of the sail. Second, the foot had minimal loads to begin with. The bolt rope has almost zero load on it. Your "lower slug" is still nowhere near the tack. Plus under minor load.

His break was near a batten. I'd be willing to bet it occurred in medium to heavy wind and the sail wasn't tensioned enough. Contrary to thought, the more you tighten the halyard, outhaul and mainsheet the less the load on the sail.

The slugs will break from time, faulty construction, undue wear from hoisting problems jamming etc., and having the sail improperly trimmed for the conditions.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2006 : 07:08:25

It seems to me that the shelf slugs on a loose footed main are designed to carry the extra loads on them - they're heavier than a sail with a shelf/bolt rope main. At least that's the case on my loose footed main. That being the case, if you sail your main with the bolt rope disconnected from the spar, undue strain will be placed on the slugs and they will fail.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2006 : 08:29:26

Frank, you don't "loose foot" a main, you either have one or you don't. You do not have a loose footed main. You have a bolt rope foot that you have decided to play with. I would not think that anything that happens to your sail will not be indicative of what it would be like to own a real loose footed main.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2006 : 11:47:34

Along with what Frank said, a designed loose footed sail will generally have a beefier clew attachment point to the boom. The slug on the clew of my loose footed main looks like a cigar.

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2006 : 13:45:27

My loose footed main sail just attaches to the boom using a strip of velcro, At the clew - The outhaul runs thru a car at the end of the boom. There are many different ways of attaching a sail to the boom and mast. I will also agree that a loose footed main sail is totally a different design than a bolt roped main sail, just by not attaching the main to the boom via the bolt rope doesn't get you a loose footed main.

Edited by - on

duanewolff
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

50022 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2006 : 21:08:01

I wish I could do that CS; Butler put too much reefing crap on the boom there and the velcro would require a lot of readjustment.

I agree with all of you that the loose foot is designed differently, but the slugs don't necessarily have to be bigger.

Was the Boom vang on tight Frank?

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2006 : 23:28:01

SLUGS?????? I have a Bolt rope, I had a main that had slugs, Its nice when you are by yourself. I have a prefeeder at the slot, Our main sail is very krispy still, but I roll it and this makes all of the difference in raising the sail. If you take the main and fold it in half where the top of the sail runs down the luff to the foot, then roll it up. then all I have to do is put the main in the prefeeder and pull on the halyard.

I do all of our head sails like this also. this way you bring out the bag, and attach the tack to the bow hook, I have the sheets attached to the clew, I put the halyard on the head, put the luff tape in the prefeeder, then the feeder, and hoist. It always tends to go up with out a snag. Heavy air it will cause the luff to move around some.

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2006 : 23:30:24

I will add, I ripped all of the reefing gear off of the boom, Our main sail has no reefing cringles. I may add them this winter, but I can sail up to 30mph, the boat heals over to 35 and its a wet ride. We are inland lake so I can moter back to the club if it gets to windy

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2006 : 05:48:58

Adding a bit here... Frank shared this same question on the 250 forum and was asked if he'd reefed around the time the sail slug was found popped and he affirmed he had but didn't allow if he'd used a winch to effect the reef.

Catalina for several years ran the jiffy reef line to the cockpit on the 250 WK but discontinued the practice if I recall correctly around the '01 model. When Catalina makes a change it is likely because there is a problem and likely the problem was that the use of winches to set a reef was popping sail slugs or worse... damage to sails.

While I disagree with Duane, the extra load on the lower slugs by loose footing I don't think is an issue and likely only brings the loads to the level the slugs are designed for. I've had my stock sail that is bolt roped, loose footed for several years now and have never popped a slug on the luff and have sailed in some tough stuff.

As pointed out... this was at the lower batten so the footing issue really isn't at play.

To respond to Frank's offering about the design of the sail being either/or... I agree in part only. Once loose footed, the main on the 250 shows a shape that can't be detected to be a footed sail. I sailed and raced a loose footed Hobie for many years and find the 250 stock sail shapes every bit as good loose footed than the Hobie did.

The shelf that becomes obvious when footed is really only the normal draft angled back to the straight boom. One might think that the bolt rope once loose footed would cause the sail foil to curl inward on the bottom like is caused by a tight leach line but it doesn't happen at least on the 250 sail, the foil shape is fair all the way to the foot.

And... I think I'm sensitive to the correct shape... I shaped the draft percentages on the Hobie by sanding the battens to get an ideal foil section flowing from foot to headboard and it paid dividends on the race course.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2006 : 06:26:23

Hey CS - if you rerun reefing gear, make it internal if your classs rules allow.

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2006 : 12:42:24

I have an Ulmann tall rig mainsail full battened with bolt rope and since new( maybe five years now)Have flown it loose footed. I don't sail in winds over 20 knts if I can help it but do sail every day weather permitting. In all this time the sail shows no sign of fatigue( thanks Ullmann). I'm sure that Ullman would have strenghtened the outhaul slide had he known that I planned to use his sail that way, but I didn't plane to use it that way. I simply asked Gary if he could reconfigure his new sail and when he said yes but it would cost $ 75 and he didn't know how soon he could get it back to me. I took a chance figuring if the sail failed it would take as long to repair it as it would have taken to rebuild it initially. It seemed a win/win deal to me and it has been.
Perhaps I'll send it back to Ullmann this winter to have the outhaul slide area strengthened since there has been so much concern here regarding same. I'd be curious to see what additional structure Gary employs to reconfigure his original bolt rope main to a loose footed one.
I also agree with Duane's assessment of the load being absorbed by the clevis pin at the luff/foot of the sail. That slides have failed in conjunction with loose footed employment seem to me to be coincidental.

Val on Calista # 3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.