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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

rust on keel bolts

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new sailor
1st Mate

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USA
38 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/24/2006 : 22:59:57

I am a prospective buyer of a 1989 25' with a wing keel. The bolts that hold on the keel are a little bit rusty but look better than some have described on this forum as "nubs" and "#2 pencils." The reason for the rust is unknown...the small amount of water in the bilge is fresh and possibly from a window leak. The boat has lived its complete life in brackish water and hasn't been hauled out for probably five years or so. I don't know the condition of the sacraficial zinc (if any), so this may be the culprit. Anyway, before I make an offer on the boat, I'd like to get an opinion on the condition of the bolts considering that it will cost about $1,000 to have them replaced. Here's a pic:

p.s., I promise I'll join the association if I buy the boat.

Former owner of a 1989 C25 WK/SR #5862
Clear Lake, TX (near Houston)

http://www.myspace.com/a_boat_called_lafawnduh

Edited by - new sailor on 07/24/2006 23:19:26

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2006 : 07:54:42

There are only a few things you cannot afford to neglect. Keel bolts are one of those things. Stainless is vulnerable when it does not get air and will form pitting corrosion. Catalina direct sells a kit to add new bolts . That may be the ticket.

Tom.

Edited by - atgep on 07/25/2006 07:55:56

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2006 : 08:01:12

Hi Colby,

First, let me emphisize the need to have a boat examined by a competent person. More problems may be present than rusty bolts.

Secondly, the bolts,washers,and nuts on my wing are all stainless steel and may exhibit a rusty appearance. I'd try, with the owners permission, removing one of the nuts to determine the integrity of the bolt/nut unit.

Most stainless steel is none magnetic; try a magnet on the bolts to determine their metallic nature.

Repeat first sentence.

Val on Calista, # 3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2006 : 09:07:46

My 89 was a derelict on a trailer after being a derelict in the water. My bolts looked like this the first time I opened the bilge.

Yours are a little scary, however, if you can get an 89 do it. The 89 is a vastly different boat than the older ones and worth putting a lot of effort into to make a nice boat again. Go to the pages in my sig and after way too much time you will begin to understand how different the 89 is from the 82 that I owned until last year. You are welcome to contact me via email and show me lots of photos, I may be able to give you an idea whether or not you should proceed with a survey.

Edited by - on

ilnadi
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2006 : 09:37:07

you may try to wirebrush the bolts, nuts and washers in case it is rust or stain from another source that may have covered everything. Hard to believe the stainless hardware will rust liek that. It may corrode or pit but does stainless ever look like that?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2006 : 11:12:51

I too suspect something other than actual rust. On an '89, the bolts are sure to be stainless steel--mild steel was only used on the models up to around 1983 with cast iron fin keels. "Stainless" can develop a rust-colored stain, or it could be something as simple as mildew or algae (as there is around the sump).

Frank is right about the '89--it's one of the nicest 25-footers ever built (but was costing too much for its market). And Val is right--invest about $350 for a professional survey. It will reassure you that the hull and rig are sound, the deck cores are dry, and there are no other major surprises. Participate with a clipboard and ask questions--you'll learn a lot during the process.

And get back to us with any more questions.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 07/25/2006 11:14:13

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2006 : 11:25:18

Didn't someone (Val?) once say they had a stainless steel bolt that corroded from the inside out with the outside looking new yet hollow on the inside?

Edited by - on

new sailor
1st Mate

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USA
38 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2006 : 11:26:37

I sure appreciate everyone's input on this. I like Dave's explanation the best...the bolts are probably OK, just stained. That's kind of what I wanted to hear. I'll see if the bolts can be cleaned so I can evaluate their integrity.

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2006 : 16:22:15

Don,

Frank On Drako a home finished something or other was walking through the marina lot with a hand full of stainless bolts that looked like Swiss cheese. The bolts were from his rudder, all under water service. I never saw anything like it until Farley, a fifty foot Gulfstream came up for repair in the same yard. The rudder shaft ( stainless 2+"diameter) was pock marked like the bolts on Drako. Coincidence, maybe, hot dock electrics possibly, no one seemed perturbed by what they had, just happy to have found out about it at home base. Both boats are world cruisers.

Incidentially Frank is the Captain who discovered how to rid his yacht of cormorants with a box of fluorescent tubes. I reported on this some time ago, perhaps you remember.

Val on Calista # 3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2006 : 17:43:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by new sailor
 ...I like Dave's explanation the best...the bolts are probably OK, just stained. That's kind of what I wanted to hear...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Wait--I didn't explain nuthin! I speculated. And I recommended professional help!

Seriously, get a survey. It ain't just about the money--it's about safety. (And your insurer might require it.)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 07/25/2006 17:47:46

Paul
1st Mate

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57 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2006 : 22:29:23

The guy that surveyed my '83 pointed out a couple of things on this subject.

First, he is technically not allowed to unscrew anything on any vessel he inspects. I don't know if this is some code his association follows or one of the many legal quirks of my fine state. However, no law or governing body prevented me from unscrewing the bilge boards so he could look at the bolts, which on my '83 were also rusty.

The second and more important thing he told me was that I consider not just how much rust there is, but also how much bolt remains. It's easy to look at a bolt and think, "holy cow, the threads are entirely rusted away!" But his glass-is-half-full view was to see that the majority of the bolt diameter is still there. As a measure of confidence, he said I should think about how hard, if even possible, it would be to get those bloody bolts off. If that's a job you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy, than there isn't much risk of your keel falling off when you don't want it to.

I'm not suggesting the guy knows everything, but he's got an impressive resume, 40+ years of surveying, and a great repuation around southern Lake Michigan.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2006 : 18:47:59

Let me put it another way... From your picture, the entire bilge sump is coated with brown gunk, much like what's on the bolts. That's not unusual--bilges often have continuous wetness from rain seeping down from transom fittings, windows, etc. None of it was salt water, and even if the boat had a leak, where you are, it still wouldn't be as troublesome as salt water. The nuts and bolts look intact to me--I can see the flat sides of the nuts, which is a good sign! That vintage has stainless keel bolts and nuts--I can just about guarantee it. IMHO, you have no problem with the keel.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 07/29/2006 18:48:32

new sailor
1st Mate

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USA
38 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2006 : 12:29:27

I took some close-ups of the bolts. After looking at them more carefully, I think thye're in acceptable condition.

Edited by - new sailor on 07/30/2006 12:30:12

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2006 : 14:02:14

Yup--they're fine. Scrub them with a Scotchbright pad and they'll look like they're new.

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