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Catalina 25 Specific Forum

emptying waste tank

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esailor
Navigator

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USA
118 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/28/2006 : 14:26:43

Since we were discussing it. I'm not sure where to go or how to drain the nasties from inside. I assume I need to find where people on my lake have this stuff pumped out, then what is the procedure? What should the cost be? I know it wil vary from place to place but I have no ideas on this. After is is cleaned out and flushed what do I put in it? It does not smell bad...yet.

In a word EEEWWWWW

Pete Hagar
Dayton,Ohio
Indian Lake
2770 82/SR/SK/9.9 evinrude

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Trust Me
1st Mate

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USA
71 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2006 : 15:43:31

Pete:
In Michigan we go to the pump out facility at a local marina and pay $5 for their dock side pump to empty and wash out my waste tank. There is a whole list of ways to keep odors down from home prepared mixtures to West Marine additives.
Ron

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djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2006 : 16:40:09

Cost me $15 at the local filling station. They pump it, fill it will clean water and pump it again. Cheers.

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esailor
Navigator

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USA
118 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2006 : 21:34:00

Do they do it for me or do I get to play with the soup???

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Paul
1st Mate

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57 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2006 : 22:43:11

Pete,
This procedure isn't in any of the manuals and I think it's assumed by many to be too obvious to merit explanation. Once you've done it, you'll probably feel the same way. But if you're like me, there is something special about handling this brand of soup that makes you think twice about getting it right the first time.

There's a cap on the port side of your deck labeled 'waste'. Unscrew it with whatever key/wrench device came with the boat. You're going to put the hose from the pump out into this opening. The pump is going to suck everything out of your tank. I'm guessing there are a few variations on how the pumps work. In my harbor, you turn on the pump motor on the dock, but use of valve at the end of the hose to open and close the suction. It also has a window near the valve so you can see when you're only drawing air from the tank.

If there's a hose near by, I run some water into the tank and then repeat the procedure to flush out any stray stuff. Not sure that's necessary if you're going to use the head again right away.

Once you're done, replace the waste cap and hose down any spills.

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farrison
Navigator

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USA
166 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2006 : 22:57:08

Pete;

My marina has the same kind of set-up that Paul describes above. It is VERY easy, and clean. The pump at dock-side has a start and stop botton on the side. The hose has a quarter turn valve on the end with a window ( clear section of pipe) and a tapered rubber fitting on the end. The tapered rubber end fits snugly into your waste fitting. So you turn on the pump, stick the rubber end into the waste fitting and turn the valve open. The pump slurps out the gunk in less than a minute. Rinse with water and repeat. Very little hassle and you don't have to touch anything iky. You can handle it. Good luck.

Paul

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Fantasy II
1st Mate

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USA
80 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2006 : 23:24:50

As an "Emergency Only" procedure, you can use a manual bilge pump through the tank top opening, into a 5-gallon Jerry can, which you then have to tote to an approved dump station. It is not the "nicest" way but it will give you some more room until you can get to a proper pump-out station!

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jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2006 : 06:35:06

As long as we are discussing the issue....what about the Sanipottie Portable Head, the type w/ their own holding tank - how does that get emptied?
Jerry

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Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2006 : 07:17:17

On Saturday I tried to get my holding tank pumped out for the first time. Who knows how many years it has been since it has been pumped out, but it wasn't completely full. I went over to the dock and first found out that I need that key to open the cap. My boat didn't come with one, but luckily a neighboring C-27 let me borrow her key. We then connected that suction hose to the deck connector and tried to clean out the tank. Nothing was happening. I went back down below to see what was going on and found out that the previous owner cut the pump out hose and plumbed it for overboard dumping only! He cut the hose going to the deck and connected it to a manual pump which is connected to a thru hull. I have no idea what he was thinking. Now I have another project to add to my list and first I will have to empty the tank. I'm thinking about using some PVC piping to put through the tank top opening, connect it to the dockside pump, and suck it out through that. Then redo the plumbing correctly and maybe remove the overboard plumbing and patch the thru hull.

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Paul
1st Mate

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57 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2006 : 07:25:10

Jerry,
Answering your question about emptying a porta pot; you've got to carry the tank ashore and pour it into a toilet. If you're lucky, the marina will allow you to do this; I've heard that some don't, in which case you have to take the tank home with you.

Porta's are a far more hands-on experience when in comes time to empty them. Count on an eye-full and nose full of sensory experience and probably an occasional ugly splash.

Edited by - on

Alan Clark
Captain

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406 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2006 : 08:46:03

Pete, On Grand Lake St. Marys there is a pump out facility put out by the state of Ohio at one of the marinas, it takes quarters and costs about $2.00 each time. I ALWAYS pump out than fill with clean water, than pump out again. I also use the K.O./C.P. (Kills Orders/Cleans Potties) products from Raritan. (can be ordered on line or from West Marine) being on an in-land lake I am sure there is a pump out some where on Indian Lake- I would call the ODNR or the nearest marina and ask. Fair Winds

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jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2006 : 10:08:34

Paul - Thanks for confirming what I sorta knew, but didn't want to accept...

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2006 : 13:01:13

Hey Justin,<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">He cut the hose going to the deck and connected it to a manual pump which is connected to a thru hull.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">From your description, it sounds to me like you're most of the way to having a system with dual pumpout options. Like this: the discharge hose coming out of holding tank connects to a T-fitting. A hose from the leg of the T goes to the deck pumpout fitting. A hose on the remaining opening of the T-fitting goes to the inlet of the pump you mentioned. A hose from the outlet of the pump goes to a seacock on the thru-hull.

This way, with the seacock closed, the holding tank can be pumped out through the deck plate. In a full tank emergency, where there is no pumpout facility available (3 miles offshore for instance), with the deck plate closed and the seacock open, the holding tank could be pumped overboard. Even though you may not now plan on ever needing the overboard discharge option, it doesn't sound to me like it would cost you much to have it there, since you've already got the pump, thru-hull, and hose installed. With the seacock closed, there's no chance of sewage accidentally getting dumped underwater.

From West Marine Advisor titled [url="http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/westadvisor/10001/-1/10001/sanitationsystem.htm"]Selecting A Sanitation System[/url]:
"More than 3 miles from the coast it is legal to discharge raw (untreated) waste overboard, either directly from the toilet or by emptying the holding tank. We think the most sensible sanitation system design gives you the choice of both a dockside pump-out and the ability to empty the tank yourself when offshore." (see illustration below)
<center>

</center>
Except where they're showing a Y-valve, I'm saying a T-fitting will work. And where they're showing a macerator pump, I'm saying a sewage-rated manual diaphragm pump will work.

{This hypothetical suggestion void where prohibited. The author assumes no responsibility, etc.}

-- Leon Sisson

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Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2006 : 13:49:02

Leon,

Yeah, I probably shouldn't go through the trouble of removing all the overboard plumbing. The PO installed a T-valve to choose whether to have waste flow into the tank or to flow directly overboard. I can replumb it so that it always flows into the tank and then choose whether to pump through the deck fitting or overboard off shore like you mention.
To think when I installed the new head a couple months back, I thought I was done with that dirty work. Looks like I have more to do

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redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2006 : 20:59:09

As long as we are discussing the issue....what about the Sanipottie Portable Head, the type w/ their own holding tank - how does that get emptied?
Jerry...

Most pumpout stations and boats can accomodate a porta head... They charge $5 and laugh a bit, bit we have a thetford 6 gallon holding taank model with a 2.5 gal reservoir with the electric flush button...

sten

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dblitz
Navigator

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240 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2006 : 10:19:28

Justin,
While you're doing all the work, you might as well install an antisiphon valve on the head. I don't know why WM's diagram doesn't include one but you should have if you're going to pump overboard (3 miles off shore) since the head's thru hull is usually below the water line.

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2006 : 10:38:12

My take on siphon breakers

If the seacock of the offshore discharge thru-hull is only open during the rare and brief occassions when the tank is being pumped overboard, then there's no real need for a siphon breaker in any of the waste hoses.

However, if the head gets its intake water from a thru-hull, then it very likely should have a siphon breaker between the head pump and bowl rim. I think the top of the bowl rim of a typical marine head mounted on the original fiberglass platform in a C-25 head compartment ends up being above the nominal static waterline, but not by alot. In other words, a small change in boat trim could result in a potential flooding path from the open intake seacock into the bowl. (And from an overflowing bowl, into the rest of the boat!) Without a siphon breaker, the one-way valves in the flush water pump would be about the only impediment I can think of to water flowing into the bowl, and even then the flow would be in the direction the valves are designed to permit.

-- Leon Sisson

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Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2006 : 11:17:25

Is this what you are talking about for a siphon breaker?

This is on the loop behind the head. It's one of those one way duckbill vents. I wanted to empty the head because I noticed when I was testing out the system, the vent was releasing the disgusting odor, along with oozing a tiny bit of liquid. It seemed like pressure was building in the hose, so I stopped flushing. I read those are supposed to be one way vents to prevent siphoning and also I would think not let air/fluid out. My holding tank is not transparent, but I did remove the small cap on top and checked the level.
Here is my maze of plumbing:

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2006 : 11:21:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jerlim
 As long as we are discussing the issue....what about the Sanipottie Portable Head, the type w/ their own holding tank - how does that get emptied?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
By you emptying it!

Some marinas here have stations for dumping, complete with hoses for washing out. If you're using enzyme treatments, the whole process is surprisingly unobjectionable. I use something like Windex to wipe down the outside when I'm done. I will contend that my boat has never had the odors that I find in most boats with permanent heads.

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2006 : 11:06:16

Justin,<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Is this what you are talking about for a siphon breaker? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Yes. The little one-way valve at the midpoint of the 'U' is supposed to let air into the 'U', but not let air (or anything else) leak out. For a siphon breaker installed in a waste hose, it's not uncommon for the one-way valve to become blocked partially open by 'solids'. A partial solution is to add a vertical extension tube a few inches long between the 'U' and the valve. The idea being to move the valve further from the waste flow.

In my previous post in this thread, "My take on siphon breakers," I was suggesting only installing one in the 3/4" hose from the pump to the bowl rim. This would involve discarding the foot or so long hose which came with the head, and installing two longer hoses in its place, leading uphill to a 3/4" siphon breaker, usually mounted as high as practical on the bulkhead or hull liner up under the sidedeck (as in your photo).

-- Leon Sisson

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