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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Wing keel and launch ramps

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CaptRon400
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/10/2006 : 16:26:02

Hi -

Don't have one yet, but I'm looking at a late model 250 wing keel. I have a C400, but I can't get it's near 6 foot wing through the shoals in my inlet in Punta Gorda (FL), so it remains in NJ and is for sale. Ponce Inlet goes under 5 feet over much of the winter. I like the C250 because of it's 3 1/2 foot draft and that it's trailerable.

BUT - what sort of specs will the launch ramp need to back this thing into the water? It seems that the boat will need around 4 feet of water to float off of the trailer. The galvanized trailer has the hitch extension (perehaps 10 feet long?), but I don't really want to back a fairly new truck into the salt water.

The Punta Gorda ramp seems to have a lower angle and is on shallow side. I've done that ramp many times with a 20 foot SeaDoo jet boat (also for sale soon - I've hated it since day 2) but it only needs 2 feet to float away. I may not be able to float the 250 off of the trailer???? Do any of you have problems with certain launch ramps, and are there ways around it - short of travel lifting it?

I'm not worried about trailering it - I'll be using a 4wd Chevy Avalanche this year and will be upgrading to a Powerstroke F350 next year (for other reasons). Only possible problem I see is getting it into and out of the water.

One other question as long as I'm here - can the mast be raised by one person? Some people I've asked (former owners) seem to say 2 are required.

Thanks

Ron Marcuse
C400 #74 "Good Vibrations"

CaptRon400
C250 WK #688 "Running Free"
Telstar 28 #359 "Tri-Power"
2002 SeaDoo Challenger 2000 Merc V6
C400 #74 "Good Vibrations" (sold)

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2006 : 22:22:48

Hey Ron,
First things first; Welcome aboard!

Here's a [url="http://www.bellsouthpwp2.net/t/o/tompotter/my%20web/page10.html"]link[/url] to a page on my web site that describes how I launch. I use a strap and a spare tire/launch wheel setup that I made. I prefer a shallow angled ramp over a steep one, allows the wing to fit better under the guides on my trailer. Just works better for me. With the strap the wheels on my truck don't touch the water.

Also, if you have the mast raising kit on your trailer, then you can raise and lower your mast with one person but two makes it easier.

Edited by - on

CaptRon400
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2006 : 00:58:57

Thanks for the info, Tom. The 5th wheel looks interesting and would work, but the trailer on the boat I'm looking at has a 2nd hitch coupling on a heavy beam (under the main coupler) that pulls out around 10 feet. This may do the trick, but my real concern is having to back out beyond the edge of the ramp to get enough water to float it - which could put both the boat and trailer into a cross current. I've got to find out from the city engineer how far the concrete ramp goes out. In any case, I may need high tide to float or retrieve the 250. The boat seems to need around 4 feet of water to float off the trailer.

Out of curiosity, do you (or anyone else) know how much weight is on the trailer tongue? I'm assuming that the whole package hits the scale at around 5,200 pounds with maybe 600 on the hitch. In theory this could mandate a weight distributing hitch which could interfere with the surge brakes. I think it has surge brakes because of the 4 pin connector.

By the way, I liked a number of ideas on your web site.

Ron

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2006 : 06:14:26

Why dont' you just take the owner/dealer and the C250 down to your ramp and check it out? Make it a condition of sale.

Edited by - on

CaptRon400
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2006 : 09:54:28

Good idea, but the boat and I are both in NJ and the ramp is in Florida. I spoke this morning to two guys who work in the canal system - building docks and dredging. One feels that I can make it at low tide, the other at high tide. The former thinks the increasing ramp angle further in will help, the latter is leaning towards a long extenstion tongue and the increased angle. With the 10 or 11 foot longer tongue I may just make it. I can always try both low and high tides and see what works better. Not that tidal range is huge down there - usually on the order of a foot or so.

I'm leaning towards buying the 250 WK now.

Ron

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2006 : 11:11:53

Ron, Are up planning on launch and retrieve each time you use the boat or putting her in a slip and pulling occasionally?

PS I saw "Good Vibrations" on the Catalina Owners site for sale. Nice looking boat!

Edited by - on

Russ.Johnson
Commodore

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USA
855 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2006 : 11:54:34

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by CaptRon400</i>
I'm assuming that the whole package hits the scale at around 5,200 pounds with maybe 600 on the hitch. In theory this could mandate a weight distributing hitch which could interfere with the surge brakes. I think it has surge brakes because of the 4 pin connector.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Ron,
I have a C250 Water Ballast, so I don't know the tongue weight of the Winged Keel.
It sounds like it has a TrailRite trailer. This is the same one available from Catalina.
The tongue extension is about 10' and fits below the standard hitch.
On my trailer, the 4-pin connector is only for lights.
The brakes are hydraulic not electrical.
Here's a picture of my trailer.
The tongue extension is removed, but you can see the holder.
The hydraulic brake fluid chamber is just behind the hitch.
In the picture, you can see the safety chains wrapped around it and the black filler cap.

Someone else with the a winged keel mounted a weight distributing hitch and had no problems.
Since you're new, I can link those pictures to this topic, if you want?
Russ (#793)

Edited by - Russ.Johnson on 08/11/2006 11:55:26

kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2006 : 13:44:00

There is a TON of discussion on this subject on this site, search on the word launch, and also on hitch, and you will find a lot of it.

Here is my experience with my wing keel.

First, the trailer and boat is 5500 lbs or so. I use an equalizing hitch from Progress Mfg which allows weight distribution without interfering with the surge brakes.

Second, I have only launched on two different ramps, but the experience made me pretty sure of the following:

Unless you are lucky enough to have exactly the right ramp slope at high tide, the tongue extension does not get the boat far enough into the water without submerging the hitch and rear bumper of the tow vehicle. Some folks have said it works fine for them, but you have significant chance of having to get the two vehicle wet. If you only put in and take out once in a while, just use a boatyard and have them lift you off of that trailer and put you in.

If you plan to launch frequently, you should get the third wheel made (lot on this on site as well) and use the rope launch method in my opinion, and you should ALWAYS do it at high tide to avoid running the trailer off the end of the ramp. I tried to recover at low tide once, and discovered the ramp, while long enough, just flattened out and never got the trailer deep enough. I also tried launching at another ramp at low tide, and the wheels on one side went off the end of the ramp, making the trailer tilt badly. The boat was already floating, so I don't think I hurt it, but I have to get it out of the water again to look soon. If you do it at high tide, it is very quick and easy to launch and recover the boat this way.

If you have more questions, fire away.

Edited by - on

CaptRon400
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2006 : 19:27:39

Thanks for all the help. I guess I'll be hanging around here more often now. I bought the boat today - its a 2003 wing keel 250 with a Honda 9.9, pedestal steering, head, holding tank, galley, electonics, autopilot, and the factory trailer with the mast raising option. I'll probably pick it up on Tuesday - after the dealer and I try raising the mast at his lot. May as well do it the first time with an "expert" around. It looks fairly easy though.

The 5th wheel launching system interests me, and I may do it after I try the tongue extender first.

I'll probably be back with some more questions.

Ron

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2006 : 19:58:50

That's outstanding Ron! I know it will take some getting use to, stepping down from a 400. But the 250 is a fun boat. The idea of putting her on a trailer and driving up or down the coast is great.

We welcome your questions.

Edited by - on

kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2006 : 20:28:39

Right on Ron! You picked an EXCELLENT boat. Enjoy! There are some very knowledgeable folks on this site that give a lot of there time to help with questions. They have helped me immensely.

Welcome! Please considering joining the association. Only $22 per year, which supports this web site and a Mainsheet magazine subscription among other things...

Edited by - kevinmac on 08/12/2006 11:39:54

CaptRon400
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 08/12/2006 : 09:11:40

I will join the association, but I'm a paid up member (and officer) of the C400 Association until next year. I was the Commodore for over 10 years! (and FINALLY found someone to take over). I still have the boat too. I love it and it's eventual sale is not of my choosing, but it draws too much water for SW Florida - where we will spend over half of every year. Insurance down there during the hurricane season is a major problem too - I was quoted $7,000 (not a misprint) by the only company willing to insure it. Anyone wanting to move up to a 400 give me a holler. Not counting the 250 (had to say that), I think it's the best thing Frank and Gerry ever did. I've always been able to run away from any other production Catalina made, regardless of size.

I expect to pick up the 250 this week. depending on the weather and some things I have to do. The dealer also has to correct a minor problem and I want to go over everything before I hand him a check. By the way, I bought it on Ebay from WInter Sailing (NJ Catalina dealer). I almost sold the 400 on Ebay too. Not a bad place to buy or sell a boat.

I'm assuming I can run the 9.9 Honda on land using a pressurized hose - with some sort of screw in or clamp-over adapter. My jet boat (also for sale) has a garden host inlet and dingy motor uses a clamp over fitting. Any hints on the Honda?

Ron

Edited by - on

Russ.Johnson
Commodore

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USA
855 Posts

Response Posted - 08/12/2006 : 18:45:49

Ron,
I have a Honda 8HP Classic.
Here's the adapter I use.

Russ #793

Edited by - Russ.Johnson on 08/12/2006 18:47:15

bill bosworth
Navigator

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USA
172 Posts

Response Posted - 08/12/2006 : 19:26:35

Ron:
I had a 9.9 Honda, had a hose fitting that screwed into a hole in the lower unit, you removed a screw marked flush. Works very well.
Congratulations on your new boat, I hope you enjoy your boat as much as we do ours.

Bill c250wb Serendipity

Edited by - on

CaptRon400
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2006 : 10:36:36

Hi all -

Kevin mentioned the Progress Mfg equalizer hitch above. It sounds good - considering I'll be towing around 1300 miles several times a year. I've 2 other heavy trailers and this setup seems better than my existing chain style weight distribution hitch. I got a few prices and also spoke to Progress. Only problem seems to be the pole beam construction of the trailer - the 36 inch bars won't make it to the A frame. I've got the factory trailer - with the pull out 2nd tongue mounted just under the pole beam. How did some of you get around this? Progress suggested either running their bars parallel to the pole beam and attaching the brackets there, or getting their optional pole beam cross bar to bolt to the pole beam. Who has done either?

Ron

Edited by - on

kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2006 : 22:51:33

I used the pole tongue adapter, fit just find except I had to put a shim under it to make the screw holes line up. Search the site for equalizing hitch, or just hitch, and you should find a link to description and pictures.

Kevin

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