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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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old bottom paint coming off on everything

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Aceguy
1st Mate

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USA
77 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/18/2006 : 21:40:59

One year after I purchased my 85 c-25 sksr, I finally sailed it for four days last week on Lake Almanor, CA. It was really great! Anyway, my first day sailing is a whole different thread, but one thing I noticed that was particularily frustrating was that the boat's blue bottom paint was coming off on everything. It's like a thick paint dust or something. If you touch it, you get blue hands. . . . brush against it, blue clothes. . . . and worst of all, I brought the wet tiller into the cabin when it was time to trailer and now my cushions are a new sticky shade of blue!

Clearly, the bottom paint is 15+ years old, and needs to be redone. What is the best way to remove this nasty stuff? Are there chemical strippers that won't affect the fiberglass? Do I have to sand the whole thing with a respirator? (ugh)

Also, I will definitely be a trailer sailor for the next couple of years. Even when I do finally get a slip, it will almost definitely be in fresh water. What kind of paint do I need for the bottom? Marine paint? Anti-fouling paint? What kind?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

Eric Freedman
1984 SR/WK #4671
Folsom, CA

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2006 : 00:48:14

Ace, its sounds like you have ablative paint and it sounds like its doing its job. It is designed to kinda sloth off the bottom of the boat. If the boat has been out of the water for some time, it may have lost its sticking value, and this is the reason its comming off so fast. Our other boat had ablative paint on it and it got everything messy.

As for taking it off, well its work, you can get a liquid stripper, or sand it off. Both are allot of work and take some time. If you are going to use a different kind of paint you will need to have a fresh bottom to apply the paint to, You can not put a hard epoxy paint over an ablative paint.

As for the paint of choice I would first ask around and see what others are using around you. Ask the other owners how they like the paint, and how its applied. I would recommend VC17. I love this stuff, apply two coats and you are good for a season, after a year you can pull the boat and wash it off and apply another coat. It is liquid thin and goes on really smooth. you will need to be sure that the bottom is free of any ablative paint, and that its smooth.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2006 : 08:23:36

Yup--ablative paint. Look into the peel-away stripper West Marine sells--it's safe on fiberglass and should get most of the paint off in a form that can be disposed of easily. (You want to minimize dust and droppings--it's very toxic.) You'll probably have a little scraping and/or sanding to do to get the last little bits. The warmer the weather, the better it works--don't waste your money and time below about 60 degrees.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 08/19/2006 08:25:41

dblitz
Navigator

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240 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2006 : 11:10:34

Ablative paint is what I have on my boat, but we don't trailer nor would I ever put the rudder in/on the boat without putting it first into a plastic bag because the paint will come off on everything. I've never used chemical strippers and I refuse to sand because:
You need a respirator and suit with hood to make sure the stuff doesn't get on you.
You definitely need the sander hooked up to a vac WITH A BAG that you can dispose of properly. I'm not sure that putting the dust into the dumpster is proper disposal.
You need to put tarps down on the floor under the boat which is useless if it's windy.
After you're finished, everything you used is going to be blue, green whatever
The drift on this is that the job, to be done really properly gets bigger and bigger (mushroom factor is huge).
The racers out there are not going to like this but, I avoid the mushroom factor by just powerwashing thoroughly in the Fall and scraping wherever there is something that didn't come off with the washer. In the Spring, I paint with 1 coat of ablative.
A word on ablative paints:
I've used the $ 140.- a gallon and the $70.- a gallon varieties and, frankly, on the Hudson River there isn't a discernible difference.

Edited by - on

Aceguy
1st Mate

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USA
77 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2006 : 13:27:36

Thanks for the feedback. I think I'll check into the stripper. It's in the 90's here this week, so it would probably work pretty well. Thanks!

Edited by - on

Ed Montague
Captain

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USA
499 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2006 : 14:55:17

Once you get the old bottom paint off and you intend to just trailer sail, then why put any bottom paint on? I would just leave it bare. There is no need for bottom paint if the boat doesn't stay in the water. Just my humble opinion.

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Aceguy
1st Mate

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USA
77 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2006 : 18:37:39

Really?? Won't the fiberglass be various shades of dull from the stripping/scraping? What's under all that paint anyway? Is it white, or is it the same color of blue that sticks up slightly from my bottom paint job?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2006 : 16:11:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Aceguy
 Really?? Won't the fiberglass be various shades of dull from the stripping/scraping? What's under all that paint anyway? Is it white, or is it the same color of blue that sticks up slightly from my bottom paint job?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
On mine, the base below the boot stripe was a dull, light green. (The topside gelcoat is white.) I'm not sure whether that was a barrier coat done by a P.O. (I doubt it) or the original from Catalina. Ablative paint is not that great when launching from a trailer regularly. If you don't want to leave it bare, then VC-17 might be the best for making it look good. You probably won't need to recoat it every year.

Edited by - on

Bruce Baker
Captain

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USA
402 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2006 : 11:47:57

I used the West Marine stripper, and I found it quite good. I put the stuff on half the boat, put on the paper, and then came back 8 hours later. The stuff came off easily, stripping down countless layers of paint right to the bottom. Use the paper to catch your paint, don't pull it off like I did.

The second day, I left the stuff on almost 24 hours. By then, it had dried up considerably and it took more effort to take the paint off. Also, use a small sharp scraper, not a big dull one. My 2 cents.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2006 : 11:54:42

If you can take some close-up pictures, you will likely get responses more specific to your situation.
My 81 C-25 had a lot of paint on it's bottom. I used a random orbit sander to remove it. When you've removed all the bottom paint you will know the condition of your bottom and what the options then are.

Just to re-affirm what some others have said about removing ablative paints - it is highly friable. Once airborne it will stick to other boats and buildings, it is toxic. You need to have a tarp under your boat, and around it to capture all loose particles and dust.
That said, its a job you can do safely and reasonably easily. You can do it on your trailer or on a lift at a boat yard or with jack stands.

After I had removed all of the paint, I assessed what need to be done.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2006 : 14:49:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by stampeder
 My 81 C-25 had a lot of paint on it's bottom. I used a random orbit sander to remove it....<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Machine sanding requires a vacuum-attached sander, a serious respirator (not a painter's mask) and a coverall, which you can buy at any chandlery. Some marinas don't even allow power sanding except when done by their per$$onnel with their equipment. The dust is toxic, both in your lungs and through your skin and eyes. The effects aren't immediate--they're long-term--dementia, for example. (...leading me to sell my C-25.

) If you strip, you can easily contain the residue, and then you can wet-sand (with rubber gloves) to get the little bit that the stripper missed.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 08/21/2006 14:51:28

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2006 : 15:07:24

I had my 82 soda-blasted, the water kept the waste localized on the ground (see the baby blue?) and the surface was perfect when done.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2006 : 15:17:25

Around these parts, to blast (soda, sand, or shells), they have to erect a tent around and over the boat. I'm interested to see the same gelcoat below the waterline as above, and still wonder what I was looking at under the paint on Passage. (Maybe a barrier-coat.)

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2006 : 16:24:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Machine sanding requires a vacuum-attached sander, a serious respirator (not a painter's mask) and a coverall, which you can buy at any chandlery. Some marinas don't even allow power sanding except when done by their per$$onnel with their equipment. The dust is toxic, both in your lungs and through your skin and eyes. The effects aren't immediate--they're long-term--dementia, for example. (...leading me to sell my C-25. ) posted by Dave Bristle<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Right you are. The dangers are short term as well as long term. I wore a chemical suit, heavy guage rubber gloves, a proper filtration mask and goggles. I had disposable tarps sealing off the area and not a spec of that stuff touched my skin. My sander has a proper filtration system.
I did my first bottom job at a Navy marina where I learned that any paint removed from a boat's bottom must be treated as dangerous and that none of the removed material is allowed to be airborne beyond the containment area. None must enter the water.
My latest bottom job, was done with a sander because I don't like chemicals (even though I grew up in the sixties and seventies

) and if there is a chemical stripping process that is more enviromentaly friendly than sanding, I would like to know about it and would certainly consider it.
When I collected all the paint I'd removed I took it and the tarps to a hazardous waste station.
I'm a do-it-yourself guy who lives 1,000 KM's from the closest 'real' boat chandlery. My experiences with chemical strippers are that you still have to sand, so I decided to just sand.
I'm very happy with the job I was able to do. I think the results I achieved were as good or better than a professional job.
I read old threads on this site, and asked a lot of questions before I started, including speaking to Interlux. The conclusion I was able to draw was, that doing it myself was best done with a sander.
If there is a better way to remove old paint (myself) then I would appreciate hearing about it...especially since I tend to chime-in when a newbie mentions doing a bottom job. I don't want to steer anyone wrong.

Edited by - on

StSimon
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2006 : 14:12:13

Eric,

Here's my $0.02 worth.

I have not completed my bottom job yet. Liquid strippers that I tried did not work. My assumption based on other's comments is that different paints may react differently to strippers. I read on this site onetime that "liquid strippers don't".

I used an orbital palm sander instead. I am approximately 75% done. Here is a photo of the job a while back.

[img]http://www.shutterfly.com/jsp/proceserv.jsp?uid=8EbMWjFq4co&rostate=67b0de21a19867d2c4c3&co=-1&js=1156361002091&ps=1&rs=6[img]

Sorry I don't have one closer up but if you look carefully you will see hundreds of blisters. I'm envious of Frank's slick bottom

This boat sat in fresh water for 20 years. I am told that mid 80's fiberglass was more prone to blistering than newer formulas. Once stripped or sanded you may find you have more work on your hands as I did. Once I complete the sanding the repair work will commence using West Systems products. Next will be the two part Interlux Interprotect to act as a barrier coat in case I decide later to keep her in a slip again.

The main reason I replied to your post is this. I too plan to trailer sail for a while (not sure how long) keeping the mast up parked next to a local marina. Because of this I talked to many many, people including the Interlux technical support team. The conclusion was that most ablative paints need to stay in the water to maintain their properties. Sure, it will slough off but that is what it is designed to do. I believe most ablatives are not designed to be as effective after a year or two so if you got 15 years out a bottom job you did good. I am planning to use one of the Interlux hard bottom paints that don't slough. They are supposed to survive better out of the water and take multiple trailer loadings better.

If I am mistaken on this subject I hope someone will explain a better solution. Thanks. I'm also curious why the photo didn't post

Good luck and...

Edited by - StSimon on 08/23/2006 14:48:22

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1768 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2006 : 14:27:57

Hi Andy,

There is an extra "/" in the first image bracket ... that's why your photo didn't show up. I have NO idea how it got there. When you click on the photo icon, it automatically puts the proper brackets there ...

Edited by - on

StSimon
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2006 : 14:44:05

Thanks Buzz

Can you see it now? I edited my prior post and still see the url. I added it to this post and see a litle box insted of the url. Sorry, I'm really not trying to hijack this thread

Edited by - StSimon on 08/23/2006 14:50:41

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1768 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2006 : 15:18:07

Hi Andy,

I think I know what you're doing ... actually, it's what you're NOT doing that is messing up your photos. I'd bet a beer you're manually putting in the image brackets, because this time you took the "/" out of both of them, and that's why it still isn't working for you.

When you want to insert a photo, click on the button that looks like this:

When you do that, the image brackets will automatically appear in your message, and all you do is paste the URL of your photo between them.

Give it a shot, and let me know if you have any questions ... good luck!

edit: BTW, the reason your photo doesn't appear in the message above is because the URL of the photo is incomplete ... the image brackets are OK.

Edited by - Buzz Maring on 08/23/2006 15:24:17

StSimon
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2006 : 18:11:17

One more try. I think I get it now. Forward slash only in the second set of brackets.

Did it work?

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1768 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2006 : 19:00:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by StSimon
 One more try. I think I get it now. Forward slash only in the second set of brackets.

Did it work?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Nope ... it didn't work, but not because the format is wrong ... the URL of the photo is messed up (it has spaces in it and other possible errors). Try it again with the proper URL, and it should work.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2006 : 20:18:48

maybe its time to try something else.

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StSimon
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2006 : 21:47:33

Nice Frank

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