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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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looking to buy - questions about survey results

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thatmaker
Deckhand

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Initially Posted - 09/09/2006 : 09:21:48

Hi - I'm just about ready to pull the trigger on a 1977 Catalina. I received the survey results yesterday, and I'm curious as to what the owner is on the hook for with regards to repairs as a condition of sale. In addition, I'm looking for feedback on what on the list is a must fix vs. fixing down the road...

- starboard running light, steaming, and masthead lights are out
- port bulkhead around the chain plate tapped out solid, but was very wet from deck leaks.
- lead keel fin is bleeding rust in several spots
- small hairline stress cracking in aft keel sump
- bonding wire attached to the keel bolt is corroded and twisted on
- sides of the molded trunk cabin, fwd, have stress cracking and tap out hollow, but read dry w/a moisture meter.
- areas on the deck that tap out hollow and have wet core readings (anchor locker hatch, port side deck around the chain plates, and starboard aft lazzerette locker).
- areas on the deck that tap out solid but have elevated moisture readings (port side deck from the chain plates and aft, the starboard aft side deck, the center of the cockpit floor, and around deck fittings on the forward cabin top).

Thanks - Travis

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 09/09/2006 : 10:05:32

First of all your 1977 is a IRON not lead keel.

You have the list of defects, now either negotiate a price cut from the seller and fix them yourself or make repairs a condition of sale.

Defects

running lights out. Not too serious, you don't need to fix if you are only day sailing. Fixing is not too hard. At best you need new bulbs. At worst, rewire the bow and mast. Since the port light works, the wires are good, these cheap light sockets get corroded easily.

deck leaks very common on older boats. Re caulk chain plate. If the bulkhead was rotten that would be a different story.

IRON keel bleeding rust. Not serious. Clean and repaint.

Keel sump? I assume this is a swing keel? You also mention a fin. If it is a fin keel, no big deal. If it is a weakness in the swing keel well have the seller fix at a boatyard as a condition of sale.

There is no bonding system on a 1977. Remove and discard. Not needed. Unless this is a boat with an inboard diesel?

Stress cracking common, cosmetic only, ignore.

Deck leaks common, rebed stanchions, rails, chain plates. Did the surveyor pass the boat on this? The wet deck around the chain plates is concern, the rest is not a big deal. Rebed stanchions and it should dry out.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2006 : 15:18:27

best way to get good responses here is to give us a link to the sellers site or otherwise give full details on the boat, preferably with pictures.

Also - the mistake I made when I bought my 81 two years ago, was not paying enough attention to the condition of the sails. My surveyor simply noted that the sails looked okay. In hindsight, I should have been more demanding of an inventory and condition of the sails.
I'm in a postion now where I have to replace all my sails. Had I known, I would have asked for a further discount.

Edited by - on

Admin
Forum Admin

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460 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2006 : 05:52:20

Originally posted by thatmaker
 Hi - I'm just about ready to pull the trigger on a 1977 Catalina. I received the survey results yesterday, and I'm curious as to what the owner is on the hook for with regards to repairs as a condition of sale. In addition, I'm looking for feedback on what on the list is a must fix vs. fixing down the road...

- starboard running light, steaming, and masthead lights are out
Lights are important and are a necessity unless you plan on sailing in only the absolute best weather, never anchoring out and never getting caught in a storm or never sailing at night. They make a number of different lights and I would recommend rewiring the entire thing and replacing everything. That is of course after checking the bulbs. Bulbs will cost you 50 cents to 2.50 per. Rewiring everything will cost you about 250 bucks using tinned wire, and a mid quality replacement product with a new deck fitting etc. you need stern light, running lights (on the bow) a steaming light and an anchor light at a minimum.
- port bulkhead around the chain plate tapped out solid, but was very wet from deck leaks. if the bulkhead is solid, attack the leaks first. 
- lead keel fin is bleeding rust in several spots - rustoleum...not joking
- small hairline stress cracking in aft keel sump not sure what you are referring to here?
- bonding wire attached to the keel bolt is corroded and twisted on important fix more so than the lights. check www.catalinadirect.com they will have a new everything for this fix. Ensure you are buying the catalina 25 swing keel cable and not the 22. There is a turning ball in there along with a couple of other bits and doodads that will need replacing.
- sides of the molded trunk cabin, fwd, have stress cracking and tap out hollow, but read dry w/a moisture meter. they might be hollow....where exactly are you tapping and is it internal or external?....
- areas on the deck that tap out hollow and have wet core readings (anchor locker hatch, port side deck around the chain plates, and starboard aft lazzerette locker)....what does your surveyer say...
areas on the deck that tap out solid but have elevated moisture readings (port side deck from the chain plates and aft, the starboard aft side deck, the center of the cockpit floor, and around deck fittings on the forward cabin top). fairly normal on a 77, the bigger question is can you dry it out and contain it 

Thanks - Travis

 This is all going to be a question of how much work you want to put into it. glass repair is relatively easy to do, but can be labor intensive...i.e. you don't have to have a phd.

You'll be hard pressed to find a 100% dry boat built back in that timeframe. Most of the guys that stayed on top of everything in order to keep them dry are the same guys that still have them today.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2006 : 07:53:32

Buy a better boat.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2006 : 09:17:32

Good job on getting the survey--I'd say it tends to support Frank's concise advice... However, I think there's some confusion over this keel thing. Whether swing (pivots up and down) or fin (fixed), the keel is solid cast iron on that vintage. Rust is virtually unavoidable and isn't a problem.

"Stress cracks" in the "keel sump" (that sounds like a fin) could indicate a hard grounding or mishandling in a haulout, and could be one strike against this boat. Are there any signs that it has leaked in that area? (Water in there usually comes from above--if it's coming through the hull, I'd run, not walk.) "Stress cracks" on deck are likely to be just in the gelcoat, due to its shrinkage over time--usually not a problem.

The port bulkhead is a critical (but relaceable) component--if it's solid, you'd need to rebed the chainplate ASAP to keep the bulkhead from rotting. Leaks there are common, but must be attended to. (It was very simple on my '85.)

I believe the cabin sides are not cored--the cabintop definitely is. So the sides should be hollow--there's an inner and outer shell. Rebedding everything that's bolted through the deck and cabintop should stop the problem--drying out can take a very long time since the core is basically encapsulated. Rotten core makes the deck soft and is very tough to repair.

Wiring is just wiring, but the boat is not a "sailaway" buy if the Coast Guard-required lights don't work. That's just a pricing issue. That "bonding wire" sounds like a half-baked attempt to ground the mast--not that great an idea unless done really right (and there's much disagreement on what that means). "Bonding" is more complex than just grounding the mast, and was not done by Catalina.

All in all, this was the first year for the C-25--many improvements were made to it in later years--fuel lockers and lead keels to name a few. This boat has been neglected and possibly abused a little, but that's not uncommon. I haven't seen her, but the owner shouldn't be looking for much on this one. Have you looked at any others?

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 09/12/2006 09:21:59

dblitz
Navigator

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240 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2006 : 18:43:17

"Stress cracks in the keel sump" could indicate a grounding. The po of my 86 FK indicated he had run aground and had the damage repaired. There are many, many sailboats that run aground. Mine has been moored in the Hudson River since the beginning of June and has endured a good number of very hard rains as well as Ernesto. After Ernesto, I baled out a whole 5 quarts of water, the only time I found significant water in the bilge. I would venture that there are no wood core boats of 70's-80's vintage without water penetration in the core.
This site has many postings as to proper rebedding technique.
Check the sails, check the running rigging, check the standing rigging, check the sheaves (they desintegrate). I've had to change all the sheaves on my boat. Our boats are relatively inexpensive and a good way to have a summer home right on the water. On top of it, they're stable and fun and you have the backing of this great forum.

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