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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Battery/Charger/Monitor Woes

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John P
Captain

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USA
324 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/11/2006 : 15:56:31

I will try and make this short...

When I bought the boat last year, it came with 2 12V deep cycle batterys of differing mfg. Not sure of the age. I was told the the #1 battery was stronger than the #2 battery..

Anyway, all last summer, I had the switch on "Both" when I needed battery power. I only used shore power on weekends, for topping off the charge and using the 110 outlets for the radio (reverse polarity).

This year, the batterys are dead (or so they would seem). I intend to bring my tester out next weekend. I tried to charge with my Schumacker car charger (2A, 12A, Start) and nothing! I figure I will simply connect shore power and let the Guest charger do it slowly. I left the boat Friday night with it plugged in to the shore power, all switches off (cabin panel, battery switch)

I came back Saturday, shore power is on, switch now set to both, cabin panel set to service, instruments. I have a display on both the knotmeter and deptmeter (SR for both), the VHF works, one cabin light works. I turn the switch to #1 and the devices still works, I switch to #2 and nothing.

I did some digging in the lazarrette and found that plug for the Guest monitor/charger had a lot of corrosion on it. I wanted to pull the outlet out of the lazarrette and replace it but have not yet done that. So, I cleaned the plug, and connected it to one of the 110 outlets in the cabin and left Reverse Polarity switch on.

I use the shore power with the reverse polarity for about 2 hrs with the radio and the shop vac, I leave at the end of the day with shore power on, all switches off.

Sunday, I come aboard, I notice the Guest monitor has not changed it's display since when the boat went in the water (about 8A). I disconnect shore power, turn on battery switch to both, nothing anywhere. All dead!

I get easily frustrated with all things electrical. Was once told to think of current as water, but it does not help that much. All I can figure is that my batteries are dead, the Guest monitor is dead, my Schumacker battery charger is dead.

Now I need some educating. I need to do some reading. I need to get some good understaing of all things electrical on this boat!! I fear that I am doing damage to the boats electrical system!

This is an SOS for the elcetrically challenged!!!

'84, C-25, SR/FK, #4663, "ILLUSIONS", Chazy, NY (Lake Champlain)
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/illusions

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2006 : 18:49:35

John,
It sounds to me like you have too many variables to make a sound decision. If you don't reduce the variables you will be throwing money at "possible" solutions until you get lucky. If I were in your shoes I would pull both batteries and take them to an auto parts store and have them tested and charged. That will eliminate the batteries as a problem. While they are being charged you can clean all your terminals and replace any corroded wires. If they look corroded on the outside they are probably corroded on the inside and will need replacing. <i><b>It is virtually impossible to troubleshoot an electric circuit with loose or corroded connnections.</b></i>
Put one new battery back on your Guest Charger and put an amp meter in series with the wire (so the current flows through the meter). This will tell you if it is providing a current. If that is above your level of expertise you can run some electronics off the known good battery and try to bring it back to a full charge with the Guest. Take small steps and you should be able to bring it all back to life. Good luck and don't be afraid to ask about anything you don't fully understand.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2006 : 22:47:24

There's a book called 'The 12 Volt Bible'. It contains an excellent primer for those of us that are electrically challenged. I've seen it in used book stores and several places on-line...so cost shouldn't be a barrier.

It helped me understand my electrical situation and got me to the point where I could get all my lights working, on my own.

Electrical issues are rampant on boats...it seems to me to be one of the most common improperly addressed issues there are for weekend sailors.

Edited by - on

John P
Captain

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USA
324 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2006 : 23:12:16

I tend to agree with all comments entirely!!! I recall years ago, I had a Glastron run-about (1980) that was a major hand-me-down. It was always a real pain getting that thing to run each season. Finally, my brother-in-law in Florida (who owns his own Carb shop near Daytona (Bill's Discount Carb and Tune-up)) installed an electronic ignition and all was well until the floor rotted out and the boat was sent to promised land...

I will read and read an learn. I know too well about rusted or questionable wires. Problem is that you can not see leaking current like you can see leaking water.....

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2006 : 08:49:30

Another good book on boat wiring is "Sailboat Electrics Simplified" by Don Casey. If you're not familiar with him, I encourage you to take a look at his other books as well.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

John P
Captain

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USA
324 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2006 : 13:46:18

I will admit that I need to do some reading for sure!

An update!

-The outlet that the monitor was plugged into is good.
-The Batteries tested OK at the store, but one was almost dead, while the other was fully charged.

I have the dead battery on the charger currently. But I wired up the good battery to the boat and still have nothing, so I am definitely thinking that I have bad connnections somewhere. Perhaps the perfect off-season project is staring me in the face. A new electrical panel!! Since I bought this boat, I have disliked the location of the various devices:
-Monitor/charger in the Port storage dump (you have to actually sit in it to see the meter on the monitor.
-the electric panel is behind the sink and is not very accessible
-There was once an alarm system that was wired to the top hatch board the port storage dump, they are now both disconnected.

I have my work cut out for me, but when it is done, I will know the system inside and out!

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2006 : 15:48:28

I love your spirit John, you can't loose, just take one step at a time and all will go well and if it shouldn't for some reason you have an excellent resourse right here.

Val on Calista # 3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

Edited by - on

86Cat25
Deckhand

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USA
22 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2006 : 19:02:12

Im no electrician (my father is) but it sounds like the batteries are dead celled, which is why they will not hold a charge. Any small amount left in battery 1 could be enough to run small amp pulls for a short time especially if they are not run at the same time(dept, knot, vhf, one light, etc.) I would find a load tester and test both batteries independantly. That will tell you if they are dead celled.

The corrosion on the Guest charger is def. not good but that would only explain why that one charger is not working properly. It would not explain the car charger.

My '86 TR'FK had so many electrical gremlins on it i ripped all the wires out and rewired the entire boat (bow to stern, mast head to bilge) when i bought it.

Good Luck.

Edited by - on

John P
Captain

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USA
324 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2006 : 20:11:45

My Battery 1 is reading about 10.5 Volts and the Napa store said it had zero dead cells.
Battery 2 read 1 volt and zero amps and had zero dead cells, so I think the problem is the guest charger. As for the Car charger, who knows. for kicks I plugged the car charger in and tried to get a reading on my multi-meter and got nothing! Although the power light comes on and the unit hums.

Edited by - on

86Cat25
Deckhand

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USA
22 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2006 : 20:31:07

The Charger woes. cheaper to replace then 2 batteries.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3478 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2006 : 21:11:17

John,

I am not that electrical savvy but I have to ask you about what you mentioned in your original posting about the reverse polarity light and switch. I have an '89 Catalina and it has 2 - 12 Volt battery banks and 110 volt shore power. The 110 VAC has a polarity light as you discussed earlier but the switch that is on that panel, I thought that was a 110 VAC circuit breaker. I just took a look at the 88' and later model Catalina Tech Manual that is available on this Association's website and it indicates if the polarity light goes on to immediately disconnect the shore power cable. It does not indicate anything about a reverse polarity switch but does mention about a 20 or 30 amp 110 VAC circuit breaker. So.....I am a bit puzzled about that switch.

Actually, I just used my shore power for the first time sleeping overnight at another Marina (Old Town, Alexandria) but when I hooked up my shore power, radio and battery charger everything worked and I do not remember if I fooled around with that switch or not. Early Spring, I replaced the standard outlets on my boat with GFIs but never checked out the shore power to see if it worked until the other week when we did our first overnighter. The reverse polarity light did not come on...but again...I think that switch at least on my boat is an AC circuit breaker. I will have to check it out next time I use the shore power but the arrangement seems to agree with the Catalina Tech Manual write-up...so I guess I am puzzled over if there is a reverse polarity switch or not. It would seem that a 110 VAC circuit breaker would be more important and just a light to indicate if polarity is wrong. Opinions anyone as to the various ways 110 VAC shore power has been wired ?

Edited by - on

John P
Captain

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USA
324 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2006 : 07:42:49

Larry, I tend to agree with you assessment, as in my OEM literature on the boat, they make reference to a circuit breaker, yet the only thing I see the remotely resembles that would be the switch.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3478 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2006 : 05:35:54

John,

My switch is labeled "on" and "off" and believe that would the way a circuit breaker would be marked but not a switch for polarity (if they even have one for this purpose).

My thought is that re-reading your original posting, taking into account all those that provided comments and then the realization that you may have been using the AC system with reverse polarity, it is quite likely you have multiple issues to resolve. It is possible that using the AC with reverse polarity could have damaged some electrical items ? Not sure but possible. Seems first thing to square away is why the reverse polarity light is coming on. Either your dock's wiring to your slip or your boat's shore power connection is not hooked up properly. Probably need someone with more electrical skill than you or me to look that over and assess what is wrong and implement the fix. Then I would start again looking into your other issues.

Edited by - on

John P
Captain

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USA
324 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2006 : 08:28:35

Larry,

One clarification, the polarity switch does not come on, nor do I know if it has ever come on. It was (I believe) my naive thinking that the switch was to actuall reverse the polarity, whereas, I believe, that it actually is a circuit breaker.

That being said, I still believe that my guest charger is dead, as with power to it, there is no sign of life from it. No hum, no heat and the meter is constant at about 8 volts (even unplugged).

Here is a question to everyone. TO test a battery charger, would you simply put a multi-meter on the leads to the batteries? I tried this and did not get any reading what-so-ever.

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2006 : 10:25:52

To check your charger output it must be connected to a load. So hook it back up to the battery, turn it on, and check the volts at the battery terminals. It should be around 13.5-14 volts if the charger is working.

Edited by - on

John P
Captain

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USA
324 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2006 : 11:35:50

Thanks, I will try that this weekend.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3478 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2006 : 13:13:27

John,

I recently purchased a battery charger for my boat for those times when at a marina and using my lights, radio, etc loads for which may be too much for my 20 Watt solar panel to recharge quickly enough. I purchased from West Marine the Guest battery Charger (smart charger) that is for 2 batteries. It charges each independently at 5 amps/hr each. It seemed too hard to get to the AC wiring leads adjacent to the 12 volt panel, so I hooked up the AC leads to one of the GFI outlets I installed earlier this summer (using the terminals that are on the GFI that would go to another outlet). I was pressed for time and so for now, I have the leads coming out from the GFI and therefore could not put the outlet face cover on. But I plan to revisit that soon and make it right. It was just that I had bought the charger a day before going on an overnighter to another marina and I was rushed to hook it up. Works fine !

Edited by - on

John P
Captain

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USA
324 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2006 : 15:45:33

Larry,

My charger is mounted on the dumpster on the starboard wall. The unit get's it's power from an outlet mounted in the dumpster that get's direct juice from the shore power. The AC leads from the monitor go to the AC contacts on the battery switch.

An Update. After some cleaning and reconnecting, I check the batteries today and one is fully charged (was on my portable charger, 2A, Deep Cycle). the 2nd is at about 60%, is on my Guest Charger. BUT, the 2nd battery measures about 8v, but with the meter on it, the value steadily drops down to about 3V. Any thoughts about this?

Edited by - on

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