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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

rudder too long?

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2007 : 14:30:36

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by EAbrams
 Dave that was my thought. Catalina made one rudder for all three keel types.

Ok Frank, I'm more confused now than before.....

Balanced rudder.. Skeg

Just got back from Catalina Direct web site. I was reading about the "upgraded" rudders. The sales pitch led me to believe we had unbalanced rudders. Mostly because it made reference to the new balanced rudder being better than unbalanced. I just read your post that we have balanced rudders.

Skeg. did a quick search cuz I had no clue what a skeg was. Now I know it is a small keg of beer ;-)

However the picture I found depicting the skeg showed it covering the full length of the rudder. My boat does not have anything like that. Is that small extended keel considered a skeg? It looks like it only extends down less than foot in front of the rudder. Did you mean that the rudder would hit that before the cotter pin hit the grudgeon?

Finally about a safety line :-) I found out the hard way ( another newbie mistake) After inserting my rudder in the grudgeons for the first time. I went to look for a cotter pin. Who knew the rudder would not stay straight. Good thing I bought a boat hook.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Catalina did make one rudder at a time but it changed from unbalanced to balanced. I would guess you have an unbalanced rudder on your boat, is your wing factory or a retro-fit? I was unaware of a factory wing in 87 but they may have began them by then.
Catalina Direct tends to carry the "last" version of Catalina parts but often has older parts as well.
Don is of course right about the skeg,this is a balanced rudder and skeg, note the rudder protrudes forward of the transom, that is the surface that balances the forces acting on the part of the rudder that is behind the transom.

Balanced rudders float, I am not certain whether they made a foam core unbalanced rudder or not. A non-foam core rudder will not float off the gudgeons and if it came off would sink like a rock. I am confused by your anecdote about the boat hook.

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4312 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2007 : 16:16:31

Don,

If you hear any more details or see any of damage that might have been inflicted on the C25 that hit the rocks I'd appreciate an update. Especially if it's bad.

Thanks,
Gary

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/06/2007 : 20:13:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 Don,

If you hear any more details or see any of damage that might have been inflicted on the C25 that hit the rocks I'd appreciate an update. Especially if it's bad.

Thanks,
Gary
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Today, I went to the boatyard to check out my cradle (pulling out next Saturday

) and I looked at my friends keel. The fiberglass encapsulation was torn off the leading edge from the bottom of the keel to about 8-10 inches up.

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Jay Schkloven
1st Mate

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USA
84 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2007 : 08:47:29

The rudder may look OK but you need to check inside to see if you may have cracked the glass or loosened the bolts holding the gudgeons. You should have an access panel that can be removed. One of my projects before next year is to reseat the gudgeon plate at the bottom and reinforce that area.

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EAbrams
Navigator

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USA
130 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2007 : 12:42:21

Frank

Oh it floated all right

I just did not expect it to pop up and out of the grudgeons. It was the first time I put the rudder on the boat. It was in the water. I lifted the rudder over the transom, inserted it into the grudgeons. As soon as I let go of the rudder to get a cotter pin the tiller went hard over and the rudder popped up like a cork and started floating away. I used the boat hook to grab it. So if balanced rudders float

I guess that is what I have. And to add validity to your statement about hitting the skeg first. Mine was hitting the skeg and I was in a false sense of security. That's why i left the tiller unattended.

About the wing keel. The PO did not mention a retrofit. I believe I am the third owner. I just assumed it was original.

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4312 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2007 : 12:03:13

Don,

Is it a big deal having the encapsulation torn off or is it mostly cosmetic? What problems could arise?

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2007 : 16:27:55

Gary: The encapsulation should be very easy to repair--I've seen one case, and it looked almost like asbestos. Depending on the size of the wound, Marine Tex and a little gelcoat might suffice.

Frank: Our own directory shows many '87 wings. I suspect that's the year the wing was introduced--'86s and that earlier wings are retros.

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farrison
Navigator

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USA
166 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2007 : 10:30:10

I'll wade in on this topic 'cause our boat has run aground and did do rudder/gudgeon/pintals/transom damage. We have a '82 SR that was built as a fin and converted by the factory to a wing. The rudder wasn't replaced with the wing so it is the old standard (not balanced) design. It does stick down a few inches below the bottom of the wing and it is the first thing to touch in shallow water.
Two years ago my partner in the boat ran the boat up on the rocks in the mouth of our marina trying to avoid two sunfishes coming in ( he was motoring, they were sailing). This resulted in gouges to the glass on the wing and rudder, severely bent gudgeons, pintal pins, and the lower gudgeon being nearly torn from the transom. Fortunately, no keel-to-hull damage occurred. But a 10 inch crack in the transom had to be cut out and repaired, along with repairs to wing and rudder and new hardware to hang it.
We are currently using the old, repaired rudder, but my plan is to build my own balanced design rudder that is about 2 1/2" shorter than the stock, balanced. I have figured that the increased area of the balanced design will more than make up for the two inch loss of surface area of the narrow, stock design. I plan to make it from foam and carbon fiber with an outer layer of glass fabric. There have been good and bad things said about the Idasailor kick-ups in past posts on this forum, so building my own seems the best option.

Paul

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new sailor
1st Mate

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USA
38 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2007 : 17:29:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 Colby--you did an edit to your original post... Any news?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yes, adding the part about being hauled out. The boat was for sale and the buyer had a quick haul during a survey. The news is...no damage. Just some superficial scratches.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/20/2007 : 17:04:53

A picture of my friends keel after it met a good size boulder...

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/20/2007 : 17:31:42

That's what I meant about looking sorta like asbestos. It seems to be a thick layer of something without much resin under the surface.

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2007 : 12:09:52

That keel could use a whole lot of that majic paint that Frank Hopper shows in his picture, above.
(guy on left is holding a tray with blue paint - but magically - the painter on the right has red paint on her roller and the boat is red)

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2007 : 13:28:04

She is the magic

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Doug C.
Navigator

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USA
146 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2007 : 16:34:14

What about having a balanced rudder made from clear or laminated wood? Strength issues?

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