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single handing a Catalina 25

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John Pittman
1st Mate

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USA
44 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/14/2007 : 00:38:09

Hello,

I am a new user and really like the info I have gotten.

I have had a West Wight Potter for 11 years and sailed only on Lake Tahoe with her.
She has been great and is set up with roller furling and an auto pilot my first mate.

I really have admired the Catalina 25's in the marina and would like to move up to one, I havnt told my potter yet though.

I am curious if I will be able to handle the larger boat by my self and what year I should look for.

JOhn

johnnyp

Edited by - on

Steve Siefken
1st Mate

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USA
81 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2007 : 07:47:26

You will be able to single hand this boat. We bought this, our first boat, 2.5 years ago and I single handed her the second season we had her. While I had some experience sailing before on a much larger boat (only at the helm and only in open water), I had never skippered a boat before. Sounds like you have had some valuable sailing experience already. I am sure you can do it.

You will find there are a lot of tools that will facilitate single handed sailing. (You may want to search the archives searching on singlehand. Please find the Search link at the upper right of this screen. There is a wealth of information there on this topic.) I bought an autotiller for cruising purposes, but it is a big help when raising the sails. It keeps the boat on an appropriate course while leaving the cockpit to raise the sails. Others talk about a tiller tamer which is far less expensive and other sailors in this forum will say it serves the same purpose. If I was not interested in cruising, I probably would have gone that direction. If you get a boat with a furler, the time out of the cockpit can be minimized. I don't have one, but I am saving towards that.

I am not sure the year of the boat may make a difference, others here will know more than me. I would focus on finding a boat in good working order, sound hull, etc. and getting the right "tools" for single handing if that is indeed your interest.

At the end of the day, with a little practice, you will single hand this boat with confidence.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3477 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2007 : 09:22:12

John,

90% of the time I single-handle sail. One big benefit is having a furling rig for the jib/genoa. That way, I only have to really concern myself with the mainsail. When I come out of my marina, i head into the wind and then use the excess line for the furling rig to temporarily hold the tiller handle so I am more or less straight into the wind. I do that by wrapping the furling line around the tiller handle a few times and then just wrap the line to the cleat on the oppose side of the furling line cleat. I do the same in reverse when lowering the main sail but oftentimes, I just head into the wind w/o the motor on drop the main sail w/tiller held straight and then mess with the motor.

It's really the same with other boats. Do not think you will see that many differences from your previous boat. Only thing...those Potters from what I remember...they can go in real shallow water...most can not. So...whatever you buy, ensure you have a working depthfinder or even better...a fishfinder so you can get a feel for the bottom and how fast it becomes shallow. The Catalina's basically come in approx 3', 4' and 2'/5' drafts depending on the keel arrangement. So that may be a concern for you changing from a Potter to another boat.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2007 : 09:52:22

John,

Sailing is not primarily a physical sport - it's mostly cerebral. You don't need to be young or strong to singlehand even a 40' sailboat. Sir Francis Chichester singlehanded a 57' sailboat around the world, via Cape Horn, at age 71, after he had already lost a lung to cancer. The essence of "seamanship" is in knowing how to accomplish tasks on a boat in the easiest and most efficient way. We have lots of old salts on this forum who singlehand their boats easily. I'm 65 and no physical specimen, and singlehand my 35' boat with no problems, taking it in and out of it's slip alone in all kinds of weather, tacking and gybing it, tucking in a single or double reef in heavy weather, and could easily do so with a much bigger boat. If it ever becomes too difficult to raise a heavy anchor and chain, then I might have to get a power windlass to reduce the necessary physical effort.

When you want to learn to singlehand any boat, begin by analyzing everything you do. For example, think about how you can raise and lower your sails yourself. If you have some kind of self steering device, it's almost as good as having a second crewman, because it will steer the boat, and free you up to raise or trim the sails. If you lead your control lines aft, to the cockpit, then you can raise and lower your sails from the cockpit, without going to the foredeck. Consider every step in the tacking process, and how you can either eliminate unnecessary steps, or do each step in a more efficient way. For example, when I singlehand, I always reset the mainsheet traveler before I begin to tack. By doing so, I can get that one time-consuming task done before I release the working jibsheet to start the tack. After you start the tack (by releasing the working jibsheet and turning the rudder) you have a lot of tasks to accomplish, and very little time to do it in, and, if you can get some things done either before the tack is started or after the tack is completed, then you can focus all your attention on doing only those tasks that absolutely must be done during the tack.

Finally, sail with someone who does a lot of singlehanding. Ask him to show you all the little tricks that he uses to handle his boat efficiently. Most people would enjoy sharing what they've learned.

Edited by - on

Jay Schkloven
1st Mate

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USA
84 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2007 : 10:09:47

When I single hand I find coming into the dock or slip the most difficult time. The wind always picks up. Lately I have been using a technique of pivoting around a piling to get the boat in when it is windy. I clip a line to a fitting I have on the rail and run it back to the cockpit winch. When I come in I put the line over the piling and then the loop around the winch. This holds me in position and I reverse the motor and the boat pivots around the piling into the slip. Then I can get lines on the pilings and tie up.

Edited by - on

Jefffriday
Navigator

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USA
198 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2007 : 11:41:33

John, I am just finishing my first season with my 89 WK/SR. almost all my previous experience was on smaller boats. I have had the boat out alone now many times, in all kinds of conditions (a given in a high mountain lake)and the boat is really great singlehanded. I did put an autopilot in, but not until late in the season, I have a roller furler and think that would be very high on the list of things for going alone (although it did foul on one of the worst days requiring a few trips up front in gusts to 30, but that was my fault, I dumped the sheets in a panic and they whipped themselves into a fine mess) I got steered to the late model wing by Frank Hopper and it was one of the best things I have ever done. You will love this boat, alone, or with others...

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2007 : 17:25:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Pittman
 I am curious if I will be able to handle the larger boat by my self...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes, the C25 is very easy to singlehand. It's virtually the only type of sailing I do and in fact, I find it is easier than sailing with crew because no one is in the way.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2007 : 22:46:19

John, I think Steve hit the nail on the head. Visualize yourself alone first and think how you will raise and lower sails, steer, leave and enter slip or dock. Maybe take someone with you but have them do nothing-except moral support or emergency. Keep us posted. Good luck.

Edited by - on

gnorgan
Admiral

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USA
563 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2007 : 23:28:00

Wear your life jacket and harness and always stay clipped onto something when out alone.
I do lots of singlehanding on our boat and it's a breeze!!

I use a tiller pilot most every time I go out and it is invaluable in helping you get sails up and down and the furling system is great, too, but isn't essential.
I prefer to motor back to the slip, using the tiller pilot to keep the boat into the wind while flaking the main after furling the genoa/jib. Really simple that way and less to "worry" you while docking.
Nothing beats practice to increase one's confidence.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2007 : 11:12:09

Its time to break the bad news to Mr Potter.

Edited by - on

bbriner
Captain

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349 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2007 : 11:31:49

I asked the same question here about 4 years ago and got similar advice and now most of the sailing I do (when not racing) is singlehanded. I think the best advice here is to think through how you will do everything - from leaving the dock, to raising/lowering sails, reefing, changing the headsail, or anything else you will have to do while underway. Think through it first and be prepared for contingencies. After you have thought through it - asking yourself the what if questions (and making sure you know how to handle them) - then you will have a plan of action. 'Doing it' then will produce much less anxiety (the times when I screw up is when I'm in a hurry). A nice side benefit is that when you take out non-sailors you won't be reliant on someone who doesn't know have a clue what to do.

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2007 : 20:30:51

The roller furling and lazy jacks make it a breeze (sorry

) for me to singlehand, and the self inflating life vest keeps the Admiral happy

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2007 : 21:48:51

Perhaps unlike Gary Norgan, I used the roller furler to roll up the genny while under way with the sails filled--then started the outboard, luffed up, and dropped the main, letting it fall on the bimini for tidying up later. Leading the main halyard back to the cockpit was probably my best upgrade--I also led back a "dousing line" that would pull the main down the last few feet when it was balky, as it often seemed to be. All of that meant virtually never having to go on the cabintop when out alone. Around a dock, my '85 fin tracked like it was on rails, so getting into and out of the slip was a "breeze". A tiller-pilot would have been my next major upgrade--they're wonderful, but around here you still have to watch for lobster pot warps.

If you've been lurking for a while, you've heard of Catalina Direct... If you buy a C-25, get their handbook (catalog)-- $10 well-spent.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/15/2007 21:50:32

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2007 : 00:25:11

I have an old (late 70's, my guess) mooring ball neighbour who single-hands several times a week, and spends most weekends on the hook. He takes a little longer to get going than I do, but he gets the job done and isn't afraid of the rough weather.
Single-handing is a mental challenge. A very worthy mental challenge.

Edited by - on

bbriner
Captain

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349 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2007 : 09:09:22

Like Dave, the best move I made was to run the lines into the cockpit. I just did that this last spring and it has made single-handing very easy (also double-handing, triple-handing etc). Raising the sails is now a piece of cake (I used to have to go the mast) but I still have to leave the cockpit for a very short time when lowering the sails. I don't have a furling jib so I still have to go up to the foredeck to gather up the jib so it doesn't fall into the drink. That takes about 60 secs though and I usually do that inside the marina where it is protected and calm. As for the main, lately I've taken to dropping it outside the marina and then sailing in under just the jib. That makes the whole process very stress-free. I started doing that one day when the wind picked up to 25-30kts when I was still miles from home and I had a 110 up. It was a downwind sail all the way home so rather than reef I decided to do something new - I headed up and released the main halyard rope clutch, jumped out of the cockpit and pulled down the main and tied it up. I was able to do that very quickly (while jib was blown and luffing). It made the downwind sail home quite easy!

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2007 : 09:22:14

Bill... add roller furling and you won't believe it! You'll be able to sail into your slip under the jib, from the cockpit. (A little less, a little less, a little less, gone!)

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2007 : 10:09:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 Bill... add roller furling and you won't believe it!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Amen brotha!...You can have my autopilot, lines led aft,...etc, just don't take my roller furling!

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jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2007 : 11:07:09

In place of an auto-pilot, I've become a fan of a length of bungee cord, w/ eye's at both ends. I just run it from the tiller, around a stanchion, take a wrap on the tiller, around the other stanchion and terminate back at the tiller. It's a poor man's fix, but for those few minutes when you need to move forward, it works great!.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2007 : 11:39:12

Here's a suggestion for those of you without roller furling. Actually, I just thought of the second part of this so I haven't tried it yet. First, you should have a dousing line (or jib dounhaul)run from the jib halyard shackle aft to the cockpit. Second, before leaving the dock, attach a "lazy sheet" to the clew of the jib/genoa and bring it back between the mast and the shrouds and let it drop into the cabin. When you are ready to drop the jib/genoa, come head to wind, release the halyard while pulling in on the lazy sheet and use the dousing line as needed to bring the sail down. Tie off the lazy sheet to the hatch handle if no cleat is available. The sail should drop neatly in the centerline of the boat. Then, if you need to , go forward with a bungee or strap to wrap around the sail, or just use a loose jib sheet.

Edited by - on

Daren
1st Mate

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USA
81 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2007 : 11:53:11

Yes, the C-25 can be singlehanded! I usually end up singlehanding mine and also agree that having others in the boat sometimes is an issue. However, I do like the company and it is nice to have another set of hands to help out.

I sail on the Chesapeake Bay in Maryland and was out this past Sunday in the stiffest breeze I had ever singlehanded in (gust up to 17 knots with sustained of 12). This is my second season of owning my C-25 and the boat and I did just fine. I might have had a tad bit too much sail up (I sail a tall rig with a 160% Genny up front) since most of the day was spent heeling to starboard or port at about 25 - 25 degrees. I guess I was too lazy to furl or reef.

Anyway, when I do go out by myself, I wear a self inflating life jacket with built in harness, run a jackline from bow to stern, and trail about 30 yards of heavy docking line with a loop at the end.

Lots of folks will have lots of different opinions about singlehanding so you will have to try it to see how it works for you. There are lots of C-25s out there, try www.yachtworld.com, that's where I found mine. My boat is a 1986 C-25 with a fixed keel (w/a four foot draft), and an inboard 11hp Universal diesel engine.

Good luck!

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2007 : 14:59:58

If you single-hand you must:

ALWAYS have a jackline/harness short enough so you CANNOT go over the side
- or -
have a way to get back aboard
- or -
have both systems (best).

I have a line from the top of my boarding ladder down to water level and use a loop of velcro to secure the top of the ladder to the pushpit railing. A firm pull on the line will bring the ladder down.

I can't imagine what the feeling would be like to in the water be alongside the boat... and not have a way to climb back in.

Edited by - on

ilnadi
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2007 : 17:06:12

Has anybody looked at or used one of these?
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|135|88173& id=88159

I have used soft ladders for rock climbing and caving. They are a nuisance but give you a foot step, which in turn gives you immense leverage. It is still a bit of a chin up.

Second question: how easily does your main come down? We usually end up having to pull it down by hand. Could it be old slugs? I am wondering if I should have the loft change the slugs while they are adding a second reef point.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ClamBeach
 If you single-hand you must:

ALWAYS have a jackline/harness short enough so you CANNOT go over the side
- or -
have a way to get back aboard
- or -
have both systems (best).

I have a line from the top of my boarding ladder down to water level and use a loop of velcro to secure the top of the ladder to the pushpit railing. A firm pull on the line will bring the ladder down.

I can't imagine what the feeling would be like to in the water be alongside the boat... and not have a way to climb back in.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2007 : 17:28:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ClamBeach
 If you single-hand you must:

ALWAYS have a jackline/harness short enough so you CANNOT go over the side
- or -
have a way to get back aboard
- or -
have both systems (best).

I have a line from the top of my boarding ladder down to water level and use a loop of velcro to secure the top of the ladder to the pushpit railing. A firm pull on the line will bring the ladder down.

I can't imagine what the feeling would be like to in the water be alongside the boat... and not have a way to climb back in.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Some of us stand up and walk to the shore.

I think it would be so strange to have deep water under my boat. So John, how deep is Lake Tahoe, how far to shore? Of course it is possible to drown in any lake but many of us sail in lakes where it is very unlikely.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2007 : 18:54:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 ...First, you should have a dousing line (or jib dounhaul)run from the jib halyard shackle aft to the cockpit...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I'll suggest a slight alteration: If you attach to the halyard shackle, it can pull the head of the jib over and bind the upper hank, making it hard to get the sail down. Attaching it to the uppermost hank solves that problem. I also used to run it through one or two of the lower hanks just to keep it from flapping around while sailing. It can be a very light line that easily slides through and can be tied to a hank. I left it that way and bagged it with the sail (on an earlier boat).

To the question on mains coming down, on my C-25 (with roller furling) I put a dousing line on the main--similarly made to the top-most slide, not the headboard. The sail typically would fall at least 3/4 of the way, and the dousing line, led to the cockpit, got it down the last few feet.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2007 : 19:39:42

"Second question: how easily does your main come down?"

Periodically spray the slugs with McLube, SailKote or (for us cheapskates) Silicone Spray. They will go up and come down like a charm. Without lazy jacks, I go to the mast to lower the main. Usually done when preparing to re-enter the marina.

>"Some of us stand up and walk to the shore"

Up here, hypothermia will render you pretty helpless in 15 minutes or so. You've pretty much got one shot (and a quick one at that) to get back in the boat if unassisted.

Edited by - on

bbriner
Captain

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349 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2007 : 00:00:34

Frank - "How deep is Lake Tahoe?" In places it is up to 1800 feet deep! The elevation of the lake is about 6200 feet; Reno, NV is at 4500 feet. The bottom of the lake is ** below ** Reno. Crazy!! :)

Edited by - on

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