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single handing a Catalina 25

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John Pittman
1st Mate

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USA
44 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2007 : 00:25:19

Thanks for all of the great advice.
Its great to hear that many of the same tools and techniques I utilize on my Potter will translate to the Catalina 25.
I guess a lot is just mental, I had the same worries when I moved up from a Coronado 15 to the Potter 19.
Lake Tahoe is also a great teacher. The first time I took the Potter out with my wife a strong gust caught me unawares and I froze.
Fortunately the Potter headed up. Partially due to the fact that I leaned back as she heeled and let go of the tiller.
My wife commented that maybe I should stick to one of the smaller lakes untill I was more familiar with the new boat.
the stats for Lake Tahoe are as follows:

Maximum depth(second deepest in the U.S.) 501 m 1,645 ft
Average depth 305 m 1,000 ft
Maximum diameter(north-south) 35 km 22 mi
Minimum diameter(east-west) 19 km 12 mi
Surface area 495 km2 191 mi2
Average surface elevation(above sea level) 1,897 m 6,225 ft
Highest peak (Freel Peak) 3,320 m 10,891 ft

Its also really cold,and has frequent afternoon thunderstorms.
I have really gotten trained to look for wind gusts coming across the lake and act accordingly.
My favorite is when the wind switches from the northwest in the morning to the southwest in the afternoon. The wind will frequently completely die and then WHAM it hits from the southwest.
Quite shocking if you are not familiar with the wind patterns.
Anyway I guess I have decided to sell my Potter and try and locate a Catalina 25, swing keel I guess in the mid to late 1980's vintage.

Those seem to be the years in the production run (from what I have learned on this great site) that benefited the most from owner suggested upgrades.

So as it begins to snow here in Truckee I will continue to read and enjoy this site as I look for my next boat.

John

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2007 : 07:50:30

John: Why are you leaning toward a swinger? BTW, the "late 80s" vintage ('89-90) only offered the fin and wing. The wing draws only a couple of inches more than the fully-raised swing. If you keep her in a slip, I'd speculate that 1000 feet of water (average) is sufficient for the fin... If you intend to trailer-sail, just be aware that stepping, rigging, and taking down a C-25 is a whole lot bigger task than with a Potter 19. It might change your mind about sailing regularly. And it requires a substantial tow vehicle--a Suburban, 3/4 ton pickup, or the like. I consider the C-25 to be a transportable boat (for getting to a destination or storing over the winter), not a trailer-sailer--some here would disagree, but it's an issue.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/17/2007 07:55:51

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2007 : 08:40:40

I admire that you have spent years in a Potter, we had one go turtle on our lake. I second Dave's thought, with that kind of water you should get a fin. It is a more stable boat with fewer systems to fail or maintain. The swinger is a compromise that you do not have to make, the interior of a swing is not as nice as a fin or wing either. Note the critical numbers of the three boats.
Displacement Ballast Draft while sailing
Fin 4550lb 1900lb 4'
swing 4150lb 1500lb 5'
wing 4400lb 1750lb 2'10"

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2007 : 09:25:43

Well, I didn't go so far as to say he "should" get anything... However, he should be aware of what he's getting into, and the choices available. IMHO, only people with very specific needs should be looking for a boat with 3/4 of a ton of cast iron swinging on a pin and hooked by a cable to a winch in the cabin. For those who need that, there it is... and some people love 'em. For everyone else, there are totally conventional fixed, bolted-on fins and wings.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/17/2007 09:29:53

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2007 : 10:09:02

I think the importance of the swing in C-25 history cannot be over stated, it is the design that built the class but I will always recommend the fin over any other configuration if the venue can support it. Tahoe sounds like a fin venue to me. However as always, the primary thing is to get a C-25. I loved my swinger and the people who bought it love it too, any C-25 is an awesome boat.

Edited by - on

Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2007 : 13:30:22

I agree with Frank. I love my 1982 swinger C-25. Yes, it does require a little bit more maintenance than a fin or wing keel, but you shouldn't have problems if you take care of it. Just find a C-25; they are all great boats.

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2007 : 14:15:42

To add to Dave and Dave's comments on dropping a non-furling jib:

1. a downhaul is necessary, and should go as they described, because if it's up at the shackle the jib just won't come down; I've both run them through lower hanks or lt them fly free, depending on wind strength

2. rather than head up, sail on port tack and then heave to, so the wind is coming off your starboard bow. Then drop the jib. Because of the wind direction and the sides the hanks are built on, the jib will come down on deck almost completely folded and ready to roll up into the sail bag

I used our C25 for 11 years learnign to singlehand, and what I learned on our C25 helped me easily sail our C34 by myself

Another way to say what's been mentioned about doing all the work by yourself: You quickly learn that the easiest way to do things is to do them once and do them right. F'rinstance, you can make numerous trips to the mast to drop the sail (or pull it down with lines led aft), then back to get the sail ties, them back up, etc. But if you loop the sail ties around your neck before you go up... You get the idea...

Edited by - on

John Pittman
1st Mate

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USA
44 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2007 : 00:04:11

Well, I guess I am currently leaning towards a swing keel for the following reasons:

1. During drought years the marina where my slip is located gets in the 4'in range in some spots, especially near the mouth.
2. I have to store my boat at my house, so need to be able to trailer it. A fin though probably the best sailor would seem to be very difficult to trailer , even though I only do it twice a year now.
3. I cannot afford more than $10,000. The 80/90 were I think in excess of this.
4. Don't the swingers point better than the wings? Not that the Potters are known for there pointing ability. I am certainly no racer and don't mind a few more tacks.
5. It seems the 89/90's are harder to find than dinosaur bones. I am patient but would like to find one by June of 08.

I would love to get a 89 wing especially since it sounds like it also has the best cabin.
My wife finds the Potter cabin to be a bit small, it would be great to have a boat she would be comfortable in overnight. I personally only like to go out for overnighters, the lake is to big for day sailing, at least for me I hate to be rushed and have to be out for only a few hours at a time.

Mr.Hopper, do you know how someone managed to turtle a Potter?
Short of sailing with the dagger board in the raised position I did not think it was really possible.

Thanks everyone for all of your input and guidance.

John

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2007 : 06:12:13

I checked, the 19 has at our club never been in trouble, it was the 15 that went turtle. It was blowing around 30, they guy had just bought it. I saw him go out and he spent FOREVER trying to get away from the launch area. Most of us figured he was not going out into the body of the lake. He finally did and made a beam reach to the dam. When he tried to come about he turned over and then went on over. Several men took our rescue launch out and spent a long time getting him and his boat back to the beach. No on has ever seen him or the boat again.

Fins trailer wonderfully and make hull maintenance much easier. Remember on most boats 4' is the shoal draft model.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2007 : 07:25:09

Autopilot, roller furler, halyards led aft, and.....after wrestling with the boom and topping lift while reefing the main in heavy weather, added a Garhauer rigid boom vang and led the reefing lines aft to the cockpit. Problem solved.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2007 : 08:21:21

Anyone up to about 5'7" will be able to stand upright in the cabin of any vintage... maybe 5'10" for the '89-90. The earlier vintages have a little "hump" by the galley. Otherwise, the cabin will seem like a palace compared to the WWP. Another choice with pre-89s is the "dinette" vs "traditional" interiors--both have plusses, and have been debated from time to time.

You might be able to bargain an '89 down to around $10K, but that's just the beginning of the "boat units" (Ben Franklins). (Remember B.O.A.T.--Break Out Another Thousand.)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/18/2007 08:24:26

EAbrams
Navigator

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USA
130 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2007 : 10:14:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 but that's just the beginning of the "boat units" (Ben Franklins).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Thanks Dave I always wanted to ask what a boat unit was.

Cut and pasted from another web site
 United States currency notes now in production bear the following portraits: George Washington on the $1 bill, Thomas Jefferson on the $2 bill, Abraham Lincoln on the $5 bill, Alexander Hamilton on the $10 bill, Andrew Jackson on the $20 bill, Ulysses S. Grant on the $50 bill, and Benjamin Franklin on the $100 bill.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2007 : 11:37:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Pittman
 ...Don't the swingers point better than the wings? Not that the Potters are known for there pointing ability. I am certainly no racer and don't mind a few more tacks...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Frank Hopper has the last word on this--he owned a swinger and now as an '89 wing, which has been seen on the racecourse now and then. A few others here have had their boats converted from swing to wing... But I'll offer that the C-25-WK will make you very happy, as it has everyone else I know of who's owned one.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/18/2007 11:38:35

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2007 : 13:49:54

Ditto on the wing keel. It's specially nice when you need to get into shallow anchorages the fin cannot get into. It has a reputation for not being able to point as well as the fin and swinger. It's true to a degree. I have found that good sail trim eliminates most of the problem.Like all C25's she sails better in the 12-15 knot wind range.

Edited by - aeckhart on 10/19/2007 13:57:17

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2007 : 18:06:47

Not having sailed a C-25 WK, I suspect, for racing, that in lighter air she might make the windward mark faster if you fall off just a little to get the speed up. All boats point better when they go faster, and a short keel makes this even more true. A racer can figure it out by using a GPS to measure VMG (velocity made good) to the mark. A cruiser or day-sailor should just remember that getting the bow as close to the wind as possible (sometimes thought of as "pointing") is likely not going to make you actually sail as high as you can. In lighter air, it's likely to create excessive leeway, which both lowers your actual course and slows you down.

The good news for WK racers is that, all other things being equal, they're likely to be faster downwind than fins or swingers. So on an around-the-marks racecourse, it should even out. If not, in PHRF racing, you'll get a few seconds to help you out.

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