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Thinking of a new boat

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osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/13/2006 : 15:32:22

Over the years we have had discussion on the "next five feet" and many people have contributed.

Call me a heratic, but I'm thinking about downsizing.

If you were to down size what would you be interested in getting? Why?

Looking forward to what everyone has to say.

Don Peet, C25/250 2004-2005 National Association Commodore
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

Edited by - on

Fantasy II
1st Mate

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USA
80 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2006 : 16:05:18

The only boat I would even consider "downsizing" to would be an older Catalina 22, and that just for ease of storage at home. The Admiral will have none of it, however - that's how we got into the C25 many years ago (She has headroom!!).

I am really looking at (drooling over) the Catalina 270, but that will be a long-term thing, if ever.

Bill

Edited by - on

mhartong
Navigator

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USA
152 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2006 : 16:11:11

Would that be downsizing from 25 feet?

If you are interested in daysailing and racing ( and can do without having a cubby hole), you might consider a Flying Scot ( http://www.flyingscot.com) . They are 19' long with a beam of 8 feet, and can hold up to 8 people (though its a bit cozy) in the cockpit. Very stable for a centerboard, fast (they can plane under the right wind conditions, easy to tow (combied trailer and boat are about 1200 pounds) and easy to rig. Construction wise they are built like tanks, and are pretty near industrucable. If something does break, they are easy to repair

They have a very strong and active association if you want to race. maintaining a very strict one-design, so you can race competively without spending a forttune on go fast gear. If you just want to putter around, they have a draft of about 8 inches with the board.

Only drawback (1) are new boats are relatively expensive (about $16.5k equiped for a racing $14.5k for a basic crusing model and used boats can be somewhat hard to come (2) they are open cockpit only. and (3) if you put one over, they can be a bit of a bear to get upright.

Sailed one, usually single handed, for 7 years before deciding to go to a Catalina 250

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2006 : 16:18:21

My favorite right now (after really liking the Spirit 23 and Glouster 23), is the Starwind 223. A light boat with brilliant accommodations (The berth trick is simply brilliant!), that will be easily sailed well for a long time; and I mean as we all age. I like a shoal keel with a centerboard at that size boat, it makes hull maintenance much easier and they sail just fine. I like a 3/4 fractional rig for the light loads on the sheets and the ability to sail well on main alone. I like broad side decks to make going around forward so much easier than over and forward. An anchor locker on deck is a real upgrade for a boat this size. A large industry standard forward hatch. A larger cockpit than ours. I am not a big lifting rudder fan but this one has a powerful looking rudder head. I wish the glasswork was a little nicer, but the boats still look very nice.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2006 : 17:04:30

I am considering moving to a Catalina 250 because of weight. We trailer over the Rocky's and that remains our single 'big' issue with the C25. Weight on the trailer.
Have also thought about moving to a San Juan 21 because of comparative ease of trailering and launching and also because of the large racing fleet here.
I really like the Catalina 22 for many of the same reasons I like the 25, and every time I hitch my boat to my gas hungry truck, I think about the C22.

We really enjoy gunk-holing and so if we moved to another boat, it would have to offer the same level of comfort as the 25.

Edited by - on

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2006 : 17:23:01

An 18' Sharpie

http://www.clcboats.com/boats/sharpie.php

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2006 : 17:36:46

We had a near miss yesterday with a 1984 Catalina C36, but the admiral said "not until the girls get out of college" Thing is, I could buy it, she would kick me out, and I could live on it...... Cheers.

Edited by - on

dblitz
Navigator

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240 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2006 : 17:54:36

I had a 22" oday and kept telling everyone at home that if I ever wanted a bigger boat, somebody should hit me. This C25 came along and I'm glad nobody did.
I really, really enjoy my C-25, but the idea of smaller is not really heresy, if you just want to day sail. Lose the complexity of a bigger boat, the expense of a bigger boat, the worries of a bigger boat in storms, etc. AND you can get wet.

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2006 : 18:28:00

When I first started sailing I used my uncle's White Cap that was made by Old Town Canue (sp) and when the C22 came out he bought one of the first ones and had it until five years ago when it was hit by a car while on the trailer in a parking lot. He bought another C22 and has sailed in far fowler weather than I. It is a good boat. Cheers.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2006 : 18:33:37

Stampeder,
I have a San Juan 21 that's for sale if you're interested.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2006 : 20:40:43

Frank, don't get too tempted, but [url="http://www.sailingtexas.com/sstarwind223b.html"]look at this[/url]

Paul

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2006 : 22:18:29

Off-topic... ...but since you asked... Well, as a widower who bought our C-25 for double-handed sailing and then moved to Mystic after losing my Admiral, I'm headed for "The Dark Side"... I'm about to have Easter Boat Builders in NH build me a 27-foot "down easter" with a soft-top and side-curtains and back-curtain; cuddy with v-berth, enclosed head and galley; and a Honda 225 (the Accord V-6) on a transom bracket--for rapid trips to many venues around here with a new "friend" who has major time-contraints. Sorry--no sails... and no pictures yet--they haven't built one quite like what I'm talking about--we're completing the design now using their standard 27' hull, windshield, and cabin. I may name her "Dark Side"--and I'll have to get a Laser or something to keep sailing!

I know, I know... "You can get there faster on a power boat--on a sailboat, you're already there." Now I want to get there faster, with or without crew.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 09/13/2006 22:19:48

Bruce Baker
Captain

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USA
402 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2006 : 06:54:03

If you're interested in racing, there are lots of options available. I crew on a J-24, and it's more fun than a barrel of monkeys. Same with the J-22 and J-80. I regret not buying the S2 6.7 that went on the market here last year. It was a great race boat here on the Potomac. I can't imagine cruising in anything smaller than my C-25.

Edited by - on

SailCO26
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2006 : 09:06:42

I downsized from the CP26 to the CP25, specifically for racing. The GF wanted to consider the Precision 23, but I opted out. Very nice boats, just not fast like the CP25. I was looking at the J/24, J/22, and Merit 25s, but in the long run I think the CP25 was the best of the lot. The J/80 is a FAST and FUN boat, but costs significantly more than my CP26 when I first bought it! There's a decent J/80 racing fleet in the mountains here (Dillon Yacht Club), but they're asking $33k for used boats. I bought my CP25 for $7k, and while I had to put money and time into it (a $10k boat is STILL $10k, even if you pay $7k up front...) I think I got a great deal.

If I ever downsized again, for racing I'd strongly consider the CP22 (big racing fleet here and nice boats), for cruising probably the Precision 23.

OT, but upsize would either be a C270, or when I get serious about chucking this life and living aboard: an IPY420.

Edited by - on

crcalhoon
Captain

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USA
303 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2006 : 11:20:54

Question is: is racing involved? If so, I have no opinion. If not, how about a Cape Dory Typhoon. She's not fast, but ever so stable, cute as a speckled pup. Carl Alberg design, Cape Dory build, Golly,it doesn't get a lot better than that. These little overbuilt devils give you a great deal on confidence in an unanticipated occurrance. Whatever that is.

Edited by - on

reuben
Navigator

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USA
202 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2006 : 12:48:50

Agree with the Typhoon. Capable (& beautiful) micro-cruiser. Also the idiosyncratic Sea Pearl 21, or the new Norseboat. No shame in downsizing if it gets you out more often!

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2006 : 16:41:27

Thanks for all the input, I really appreciate the wisdom that is shared on our forum.

I started thinking about downsizing when I realize how rarely I use the 25.

But to be fair I have to admit the admiral and crew of choice hasn't een able to sail as her 101 year old father lives with us and needs care 24/7. Also playing into my decision is the cost of launcing, retreving at the end of the season and docking osmepneo at the club. Last Friday the BARD OF Directors, I'm Secretary, started talking about next years budget, including a docking fee increase. So here are a few of the parameters I playing with:

1. Easily trailerable, rigable and launchable. That way I wouldn't need a dock and the incumban expense and for much of the season could launch at our property owner's launch site.

2. My sailing will be primarily daysailing. If we decide to "overnight" we'd stay at a motel or get a tent and "camp out" on the hard.

3. Racing is not especially important to me, since when I race I prefer to crew, to be a depenable, reliable, knowledgeable crew. Often hard to find.

4. I'd like something I could take out alone and easily sail.

5. Since, I think these parameters suggest strongly a centerboard boat, I am interested in stability and if it does tip over, something that would be fairly easy to right and sail out of. Never could get my Thistle to sail out of a capsize and always could with my Laser.

6. I'd like a fairly large cockpit so that I can take out several other people fairly comfortably.

7. I'd like a "fast boat." Even tho' as Dave pointed out you are there when you're sailing, I still like something that moves well, and if and when I decided to race it in the open fleet the bat wouldn't be a handicap.

As I read your posts the ne that seemed to fit these was the Flying Scot. What else is there.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2006 : 20:37:51

This is a very high quality nice boat, There is no way I would own a Flying Scot, to much mass, too little comfort, too much money.
[url="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/S2-5-5-Sailboat-They-dont-make-em-like-this-anymore_W0QQitemZ220027977931QQihZ012QQcategoryZ63729QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]S2 5.5 link[/url]

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2006 : 21:04:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by osmepneo
 As I read your posts the ne that seemed to fit these was the Flying Scot. What else is there.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
She's an impressive little boat... Surprisingly stable (wide beam and flat bottom), roomy, and quick--hard to beat on those criteria. However, I seem to recall it has no inner liner, and is therefore not self-bailing--not sure. Another one worth a look is the Boston Whaler Harpoon 4.6.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 09/14/2006 21:15:02

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2006 : 00:58:51

Instead of getting rid of your C25, you could 'downsize' by getting a sailing dinghy of some sort to play around in. I find that I rarely daysail my C25 any more, but instead spend a lot of time tooling around in my dinghy, and use the big boat for longer, overnight trips. Just a thought you might explore...

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2006 : 08:00:30

Don: I've been impressed with the specs and looks of some of the "sport" Catalinas -- like the Expo 14.2 (on the catalinayachts.com site). The Expo is a free-standing cat-rigged boat with a Hoyt boom. No standing rigging, and only two lines: the mainsheet and the roller furling line (the mainsail wraps around the mast). The boat weighs about 340 lbs. You roll it in the water, stick the mast and boom in the holes, and go. It looks like fun to me!

You would be a loss to the Association and this site, but time does move on. Your Admiral and her dad will be in my prayers. Are you also contemplating retiring from the church?

Brooke

Edited by - Brooke Willson on 09/16/2006 08:02:49

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2006 : 08:24:17

Hi Brooke,

In about two years I expect to retire from active ministry. Char and I have started a cruise only business and are currently planning a cruise/tour to Alaska next summer. Appreciate the prayers.

Frank, The S@ looks like an interesting option. And, DAve I hadn't thought about the Boston Whaler. Interesting. I have considered other Catalinas, but feel they may be too small - is that an oxymoron, downsizing it becomes too small?

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3478 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2006 : 08:37:21

One thing I have been semi-interested in is to build a small sailboat/sailboat dinghy. My Catalina 25 stays at the dock but when I go on vacation or have a hankering to just go out in a smaller boat on say a lake, etc I see benefits in having a small sailboat for those times. I am also intrigued with the web info, etc regarding building your own wood sailboat. Chesapeake Light Craft (CLC) out of Annapolis, MD and Shell Boats are just two of a number of companies that sell plans and kits to build small sailboats. Wooden boat magazine/store originating out of Maine has a lot of info on the building of small sailboats and also offers classes thru themselves and affiliates such as CLC.

My concern with building a sailboat is that I would procrastinate on finishing it and drag it out for 2 years or indefinite period of time. However, CLC offers a one week course (several times during the summer) to build their 15' Skerry sailboat. The class takes the product up to the sanding/painting stage with rigging also still to be completed. You buy the kit,sign up for the course and then complete about 70% of the build.

Anyway...just a thought.

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2006 : 08:44:46

Don, they might be too heavy and too expensive (unless you can find a used one), but you might look at the Marshall catboats as well. They're more roomy, more "yachty," and you can get at least the 18 footer with a hinged mast that would make for easy setup. www.marshallcat.com.

You're certainly right about the "how small is too small" dilemma. We're all like Goldilocks, looking for the chair and the bed and the porridge -- and the boat -- that's "just right." There's a sermon there, I fancy.

Brooke

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2006 : 10:38:59

Take a look at the Santana 20. Fast, affordable, very active class association.

http://www.s20.org/

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2006 : 10:58:34

Santana 20 is a nice boat. I crew on one but it takes at least two and preferably three to sail it. It is a race boat. I think a San Juan 21 fits your bill. Light, easy to tow, quick, and just enough of a cabin to make a weekender possible. There are many out here in Oregon.

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