Association Forum - Clueless about living on the boat: Question 1

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Clueless about living on the boat: Question 1

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Page: of 2

kevinmac
Admiral

Member Avatar

USA
732 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/28/2006 : 23:33:29

OK, so next week I start living aboard my boat during the week. Which leads to my first clueless "living on the boat" question:

My sink drains overboard. I have only a portapotty, not a holding tank head (thank goodness). If I cook on board, and then wash my pan, methinks I will be discharging untreated yuk into the harbor. Even washing my hands would put soap in the water, although I guess if I used biodegradeable soap that might be OK...

What do you do when you stay on the boat, and you are in a marina? Or even in an anchorage, how do you folks deal with it?

Sign me,

Clueless

Kevin Mackenzie
Former Association Secretary and Commodore
"Dogs Allowed"
'06 C250WK #881
and
"Jasmine"
'01 Maine Cat 30 #34

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1608 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2006 : 23:59:11

We cook on a mooring ball or at anchorage. When we eat, we try to clean our plates so that there's nothing left that has to go overboard. Generally we use paper towels and/or 'wet ones' to wipe dishes as a first line of cleaning, then do a quick wash and rinse in the sink. Our sink drains out via a thru hull.
When I'm at the grocery store buying boat food, I buy with cleaning up in mind. Love to cook, don't like to clean.
One reason I like the BBQ is that most of the food that comes off it results in less clean-up. I also use a non-stick fry pan that cleans up real well with a paper towel.
We keep a box of kitchen garbage bags on board. We have a dog too, so we have to be on top of getting the trash out - before it becomes a doggy bag.

Our porta-potti rule: no solids. Liquids only.

Have fun

Edited by - on

tmhansen
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
397 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2006 : 01:07:43

This is a question I put recently to our local regional water quality control board.

Their answer was that they would prefer we install a holding tank and pump it out. That is not going to happen anytime soon.

We follow the same protocal for dishes that Stampeder does. Keep in mind that biodegradable soap is not degraded yet when it goes out the drain. It is however better than detergents - do not use them. One practice I follow. When I have something liquid that I don't want to dump overboard, like the rest of the soup I can't eat, I pour it into the portapotti to take care of later. This does not happen often and has not been an issue so far.

Edited by - tmhansen on 09/29/2006 01:09:08

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2006 : 07:13:44

Kevin,

Are you staying in a marina? If so it's a non-problem, use their facilities for washing and dumping. Another option might be a microwave and prepackaged food products. Some are quite good and the only waste is disposed of in the garbage. I agree with stampeder and tm though, there are plenty of innovative food products out there that make clean up easy.

Personally, if I were in your situation I would use my boat like a motel room - sleep in it, watch TV or read in the evening in it, have a few snacks in it, but eat out as much as possible. Having spent 20 years in the Army, I am no longer a fan of camping out. Wilderness cruising is therefor not in my lexicon of fun things to do so I tend stay in marinas as much as possible and eat out. I only camp out when I have to.

Edited by - on

glivs
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
836 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2006 : 07:22:55

Local regulations for inland lakes limit discharging "grey" as well as "black" water. The PO actually glassed over the galley thru-hull but apparently never used the sink. We plumbed the galley discharge to a square water bottle we placed in the bilge and only use the stock icebox for dry goods. At worst we empty the bottle into the head/holding tank when needed. The sink in the head still discharges to a thru-hull.

An upgrade requested by the Admiral this spring was a holding tank monitor to ensure we had no "accidents". We chose the "Snake River" system with the sensor mounted on the outside of the tank. The monitor can be located anywhere you choose. Great investment!!!

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2006 : 07:28:36

Re the porta potti, as you could empty it at least every other day, I would just use it and don't worry about 'overfill', not going to happen unless you get flush happy.
For pots and pans, we wipe out the pans then boil water in them to clean up, works a treat.

On my list of 'wanna have onboard for me' things would be...
A few good books.
My portable DVD/TV unit (and a decent antenna)
CellPhone charger
And if you are near enough to an open wi-fi port, then my laptop with wi-fi card.
A bunch of sailing mags.
A thick notebook, because I'm sure that after a couple of nights, you'll have a growing 'gotta do that' list.

Paul.

Edited by - on

kevinmac
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2006 : 08:49:25

Thanks everyone. -Kevin

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2006 : 08:53:38

I follow the no solids rule for my porta-potty when on my boat. I have on occasion used plastic grocery sacks as a liner in the bowl for solids and dealt with them later after the storm or after I get back to the dock or what ever. If you ever see a tightly tied up plastic bag sitting back by my scuppers you should leave it alone. (If the damn things would sink you would never see them!) As for garbage over the side, it just saddens me that agencies are so stupid; unless you sail in chlorinated water any food you toss over is still food and will be eaten by a myriad of creatures. Soap in the water? So what! I believe that happens when we wash our boats. I remember the day when we used to tent the underwater portion of a slip and after coming back in, raise the end and dump poison in the water for anti-fouling. God I miss tin.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2006 : 10:37:09

Kevin: Do you have a 5-gallon portable, or just the 1.5? The difference is huge, and the 5 is nicer to sit on. Also ample room for food scraps, as Todd suggests.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2006 : 11:54:57

I'm with Frank. Forget about it. A little dish soap in the water or food leftovers won't matter unless you are in a very small lake.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2006 : 12:20:31

I have lived aboard for the past two summers. Although my boat has a stove, I never use it. It heats up the interior and requires that I clean pots and pans. I cook almost everything in a microwave. The food is usually cooked in its container, which is disposable. I use paper plates and plastic tableware. There is a wide selection of reasonably tasty microwave food, and I supplement it with frozen vegetables and fresh fruit. For variety, I dine out. When you're setting up your boat to live aboard, make sure everything can be quickly and easily stowed, so you can sail without much ado. Otherwise, you'll be reluctant to go sailing.

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2006 : 13:09:55

Here are a couple of things that I have been thinking about because I would like to be able to go up to the lake and spend a couple of nights on our boat. Its not living on her but who knows what the future will hold.

1. I bought a Dewalt Corded/Cordless Vacuum, its a wet and dry model and frankly I don't see how I would have done with out it. Anything that may spill I just grab the vacuum and suck it up. This is also a great time saver than having a small brush and dust pan.

2. Because I do now have a vacuum on board, I store all of my blankets in those space bags, You can reduce the size of your linens by 3/4. That's a lot of space on a 25 ft boat. You can use the small ones for storing towels, and the medium ones for cloths, and linens. Think about the space saving just in you luggage. I never know when it might rain, and the last think I would want is wet clothing. I try and store everything in these bags, also it reduces any kind of mold.

3. For your cooking I would try and stay with the microwave foods, If you have a microwave on the boat. If not I would do some pre-prep. I love to cook and I don't think there is anything better than a home cooked meal. I would go and by a roast, some potatoes, carats, and cook it at home. Have the wife save some for herself, then I would ration out 3 or 4 portions into a separate zip lock bags, throw these into your cooler. You can do this for almost any dinner, or lunch. Once these are stored in the cooler then all you have to do is re-heat them. A microwave is good, but if you have a cook top, then heat up some water to a boil and set the zip lock bag into the water, get the food up to temp, then presto you have a hot meal you can eat out of the bag, then zip it up and throw it away. Save the water and use it over to wash yourself up before bedtime. You again will be saving space by using the bags, not having to clean up a plate. you could have just a cooler for frozen foods and use dry ice.

Some easy things to cook before you leave to store in bags.

1. Rump roast w/ potatoes and carrots
Place roast in pan w/ lid put in oven @ 350 4 hours

2. Chicken Enchiladas
Precooked canned chicken, One cup of chicken soup, 2 cups cheddar cheese
1/2 can taco sauce, 2 flour tortillas cut up.

3. Spaghetti & meat sauce.
I hope you know this one

4. Alfredo Chicken
Canned Chicken, Alfredo sauce, and prepackaged 4 cheese tortellini

Easy Apps.

1. Breshedda
One box of cracked pepper Triskits
One can of diced tomatoes - Drain out liquid
3 cloves of garlic - Use a press
3 oz olive oil
1 tsp garlic salt
2 tsp oregano
1 tsp targon

Salt to taste, you can also put this in a baggy, and the longer it sits
the better it gets.

Cream cheese Salsa
1 can of rotell
2 6oz boxs of cream cheese (no fat free)

Just mix it together - Its good.

And I will never forget my grandfather just sitting back in
his chair at the lake and popping up a can of beenie - weenies

Edited by - on

BradH
Deckhand

Members Avatar

6 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2006 : 14:12:30

BakePacker http://www.bakepacker.com/index.html
Everything is cooked in a plastic bag that is thrown away so there is no cleanup. I have the standard model and ordered the 4 quart kettle from them. Haven't used it much but it seems to work well.

Edited by - on

glivs
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
836 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2006 : 18:22:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">As for garbage over the side, it just saddens me that agencies are so stupid...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Given visibilities over 30+ft water depths in populated Lake George where the PO sailed our C25 and the 20+ft visibilities where we currently sail, it would be hard to find many locals who would agree with you Frank. However when common sense does not rule, agencies often find it necessary to.

Good luck Kevin, keep us posted on your daily adventures.

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2006 : 19:44:56

Uncle Ben's rice bowls are great to microwave and you can just toss the bowl afterwards. Cheers.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2006 : 20:15:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by glivs
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">As for garbage over the side, it just saddens me that agencies are so stupid...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Given visibilities over 30+ft water depths in populated Lake George where the PO sailed our C25 and the 20+ft visibilities where we currently sail, it would be hard to find many locals who would agree with you Frank. However when common sense does not rule, agencies often find it necessary to.

Good luck Kevin, keep us posted on your daily adventures.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Do you have no turtles, snakes, fish, and birds? I think it odd to feed the critters in winter but not in summer. Are you allowed to wash your boats? Here in a prairie reservoir we have 2 inch visibility and wouldn't want to see what's down there if we could!

Edited by - on

tmhansen
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
397 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2006 : 01:25:31

Frank, I think you are right that the small amount of soap we wash overboard is minor and of no significance in and of itself. I think the problems arise from our cumulative effects as I understand it. This would be in marinas where the water exchange is low and there is a concentration of boats. Little bits of food scraps are not an issue as you say but the chemicals we use every day seem to have a life beyond our use of them. An analogy would be fire places. Any individual fire in a fireplace is not an issue. Even when all the homes in my area had fires going is was not a concern. But on cold still mornings you could see and smell our valley filled with the smoke of all those fires. I imagine the same thing happening below the surface of the water. At least thats how I see it - but hey I'm in California and I know we have a different way of seeing things.

Gerry what is this Snake river system you mentioned. I'd like to have an indicator of our fresh water supply.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2006 : 07:04:16

Well said, Todd... I'm of the opinion that we, the human race, are the most destructive infestation in the history of the planet. After we're gone, it'll take thousands of years to recover. (...and Frank's plastic bags will still be floating around

in what we might have called the Gulf of Kansas.)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 09/30/2006 07:05:59

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2006 : 08:41:03

"The death of a lake"
One of the the few counties that border Lake Lanier wants to dump 40 million gallons a day of [url="http://www.gwinnettbizjournal.com/content.cfm?Action=story_detail&StoryID=511&CFID=11692&CFTOKEN=16230467"]treated sewer[/url] in our lake.

Edited by - Tom Potter on 09/30/2006 10:18:56

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1772 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2006 : 08:41:14

Maybe I'm putting words in Frank's mouth, but I don't think he is advocating throwing plastic bags overboard ... 'just food scraps. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with that.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2006 : 09:34:20

Suppose some elderly person brought some Hartz Mountain fish food to your clear-water lake and sprinkled a little in the water to feed the fish. Would you consider it a desecration of the lake? Suppose someone tossed bread crumbs on the water to feed the ducks. Would you call the wildlife agents to arrest him or her? If you toss a piece of crust from your pb&j sandwich into the water, the fish or the ducks will love it, and it won't harm the environment.

When the materials in question are biodegradable, such as food scraps, the concern isn't that they might harm the environment. In fact, to the extent that they feed living creatures, they help the environment. The only significant concern is that they might accumulate in such quantity as to constitute unsightly visual litter. Far more biodegradable materials are naturally deposited in your lake in far greater quantities than by humans. Tons of leaves, logs, weeds, dead animals, insects and all sorts of debris are deposited there. Natural processes naturally degrade all those materials.

While some chemicals persist in the environment for many years, biodegradable materials do not.

Nobody is suggesting that we routinely dump our garbage in our lakes, or that we litter them with non-biodegradable materials. If you give a fair interpretation to what he said, Frank certainly isn't advocating that either. He simply lamented that some folks carry their environmental concerns beyond all reason and common sense.

Personally, I avoid putting anything in the water unnecessarily, whether it's biodegradable or otherwise, and I suspect that's equally true of Frank. But, I'll confess to occasionally tossing bits of lettuce and bread from my Subway sandwich overboard, and I don't feel guilty about it at all.

Edited by - on

esailor
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
118 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2006 : 18:23:47

I promise our outboard engines are far worse than any food or little amounts of soap and don't get me started on those gigantic phallic double engine cigarette boats. I consider myself fairly environmentally conciencious. I think humans have done quite abit to damage the planet. However keep it in persective, one eruption from a volcano like Mt Saint Helens Put more particulate matter in to the atomosphere then several decades of industry and automobiles.

Don't put thins in the environment that could have an ill effects on wild life and plants. Stop cutting trees for shopping malls, protect our oceans, lakes and rivers by not dumping anything you don't have to into them and be realistic about the environment...enjoy it.

I guess we hijacked this thread, enjoy the adventure of living onboard for the time you do. I'm sure you will gain some stories from the experience.

Edited by - on

kevinmac
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2006 : 19:34:08

I promise I won't cook or wash myself all week.

Oh wait, that might create an environmental problem as well...

:-)

Thanks everybody, interesting thread.

Edited by - on

Ben - FL
Admiral

Members Avatar

880 Posts

Response Posted - 10/01/2006 : 21:32:21

FYI

[url="http://www.washingtonwatchdog.org/documents/cfr/title33/part151.html#151.59"]Titles 33 Code of Federal Regulations part 151.59[/url]

[url="http://www.uscg.mil/hq/gm/nmc/wmprv.pdf"]USCG Waste Management[/url]

[url="http://www.uscg.mil/hq/gm/cfvs/old/images/garbage.jpg"]MARPOL Placard[/url]

This is a good discussion and I would tend to agree with a lot of what has been said. The problem with food stuffs being dumped overboard is not water pollution but litter floating by. I threw an apple core overboard the other day and it floated. But I was underway and there was not another boat for miles. But if everyone in a marina threw an apple overboard it would look pretty bad.

As for the soap problem I've used baking soada to clean up. It is basicly a salt an does not hurt the environment at all. I tend to think of ragboaters as environmentalists and would hope that we all stick with the usual guidelines:
REDUCE - REUSE - RECYCLE

Because I have my captains license I have posted the Mar Pol placard in my galley and keep a signed copy of the Waste Management Plan onboard.

Edited by - Ben - FL on 10/01/2006 21:38:52

Brooke Willson
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2006 : 02:21:47

"However keep it in persective, one eruption from a volcano like Mt Saint Helens Put more particulate matter in to the atomosphere then several decades of industry and automobiles."

This is an old Rush Limbaugh line, and his scientific credentials are . . . questionable.

"Volcanic eruptions can enhance global warming by adding CO2 to the atmosphere. However, a far greater amount of CO2 is contributed to the atmosphere by human activities each year than by volcanic eruptions. Volcanoes contribute about 110 million tons/year, whereas other sources contribute about 10 billion tons/year. The small amount of global warming caused by eruption-generated greenhouse gases is offset by the far greater amount of global cooling caused by eruption-generated particles in the stratosphere (the haze effect). Greenhouse warming of the earth has been particularly evident since 1980. Without the cooling influence of such eruptions as El Chichon (1982) and Mt. Pinatubo (1991), greenhouse warming would have been more pronounced."

That's a quote from here: http://www.geology.sdsu.edu/how_volcanoes_work/climate_effects.html.

Brooke

Edited by - Brooke Willson on 10/02/2006 02:23:12

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2006 : 07:34:17

How did we get from living aboard and cooking to vulcanos? My cooking has been known to cause terrrible eruptions resulting in some very dense boat-house gases. I therefore try to keep cooking on board down to a bare minimum.

As for tossing stuff overboard, I agee with the consensus here. Food particles from washing pots and pans, particularly with bio-degradable soap, is non-polluting. Grease from bacon or other meats is most likely an exception though. Although it's unsightly, an apple core is bio-degradable and will eventually decay away or be eaten by a sea gull. I am an advocate of disposing of all such waste at the proper disposal site whenever possible however.

As for the MARPOL placard, which I also have but do not post, I don't believe it is required on vessels less than 30 feet in length.

Edited by - on

Page: of 2

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.