Association Forum - Question about replacing head hoses.

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Question about replacing head hoses.

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

Member Avatar

USA
1234 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/04/2006 : 13:49:13

I keep meaning to post pictures, but with my memory it may never happen. Anyway, the vent hose that goes from the deck to behind the head, then to the top of the holding take on my boat needs replaced.

My question is this, before I get into what could be a tragic project...After the hose goes behind the head, it turn 90 degrees aft to the holding tank. The problem is that it makes this turn behind the "wall" in the head area. Is there a trick to feeding a new hose down behind the head and getting it to make the 90 degree turn so it comes out the hole where the holding tank is?

Ben
Beneteau 361
Viking Kitty
Columbus, Ohio

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/04/2006 : 14:01:27

How about attaching the ends of the old and new hose together so when you pull out the old, the new one will follow.

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 10/04/2006 : 14:10:58

I thought about that dlucier, but wanted to pose the question to see if anyone had actually done this replacement and to see what worked for them.

I like your suggestion though, that's what came to mind for me initially too.

Edited by - on

wmkoines
1st Mate

Members Avatar

56 Posts

Response Posted - 10/04/2006 : 15:10:19

I completed that project this past spring. Replaced the holding tank, tubes, head and painted the area where the tank is located. Pardon the pun but I think I was becoming anal when it came to this project. As far as passing the tube. You don’t want anything to with the old tubes. If you can get them off without spilling you had a good day. You just have to work and snake the new tubing in close to the other hole and then have someone on the other end grab it with pliers and pull it. (I got someone to help after an hour and a half of trying to do it myself). Looks great and no smells now.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/04/2006 : 17:18:31

In case nobody has suggested this to you, I've heard from friends with plumbed-in heads that you should use the most expensive, high-tech tubing specially formulated for heads, for around $8-9/foot. Anything else will have you wishing you had in a couple of years. It's probably best also for the vent hose, since you're dealing with some of the same chemistry.

Edited by - on

Dave Otey
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
112 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2006 : 05:15:17

Dave, do you know the name or the spec of the hose you are referring to ? Also, I have clear tubing for my thru hull hoses and vent. Do the clear hoses become saturated with the same odors as the black 1 3/4 main hoses ? I am planning on replacing my tank and main (1 3/4) hoses.

Thanks

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2006 : 07:23:14

We actually bolted our head down instead of using screws. That way we were able to back the bolts with washers and wood etc. To do that we put an inspection plate in next to where the head actually sits; that gave us access to the hoses where they make the ninety degree turn.

If you decide to do this or something similar – here are a few notes:

1 – largest inspection plate possible.
2 – Find a ten year old to hold a wrench on the nuts
3 – even the ten year old is going to have a hard time with the nuts farthest from the hole – you might have to put the bolt in from the bottom and the nut on top, then cut with a dremel if needed.

Edited by - on

Brian King
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
73 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2006 : 08:11:45

Ben, I did that project 1 year ago - replaced all hoses with the best I could find. I think the name was Odor Safe? Anyway, I fed the new hoses through from the head area to the holding tank in under the V berth. It's not really tricky just takes a little patience. Even without changing the tank, just replacing the hoses, I was able to eliminate the bad odors. Good luck.

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2006 : 11:02:33

Dave Otey,

I did the complete conversion from portapotty to marine head with holding tank about 10 years ago, after reading about everything I could find on the subject. Summarized here are some of the more important points:
<ul><li>Use the best hose available. SeaLand OdorSafe, or something like that. It's readily identifiable by the price tag

$8/ft or so for 1-1/2".</li>
<li>Two short, large diameter holding tank vents are better than one long skinny one.</li>
<li>For that matter, make every effort to keep all MSD hose runs as short, straight, and unobstructed as practical.</li>
<li>Thick walled holding tanks are much less prone to odor permiation than thin ones. A good wall thickness to look for is 3/8".</li>
<li>Use two high quality marine rated hose clamps on every hose end.</li>
<li>The bio-active, environmentally friendly holding tank additives (such as Raritan K.O. I think it's called) work well in a tank with dual vents when used according to the directions.</li>
<li>Include a vented loop (a.k.a. siphon breaker) in the flush water hose between the pump and the bowl rim if it connects to a submerged thru-hull.</li>
<li>(You probably don't need a vented loop in the offshore discharge hose unless you plan to leave that seacock open when not actually discharging through it.)</li>
<li>Do it right the first time while all the parts are still clean!

</li>
<li>If you anticipate ever needing to use the head while the boat is heeled or in rough water, I suggest you install appropriately located handholds. A pair of single-loop teak handrails (like the sliding hatch handle) mounted vertically near the inboard edges of the fore and aft head compartment door openings with long #10 SS screws and hefty washers are plenty strong enough, and they blend in well with the original design.</li></ul>
Like Duane W, I thru-bolted the base of my head. I cut an access slot in the vertical wall of the head base platform facing towards the centerline of the boat. I then reinforced the edges of the slot with fir or oak 1x2 glued inside the hidden compartment under the platform. To cover the hole, I reused a piece of teak venier plywood which had been part of the portapotty installation shelf. The result looks 'factory'.

Having used this installation for about 10 years, I can say the only time I've ever noticed 'head odor' aboard was after I had last flushed with seawater, not purged the intake line with fresh water, and let the boat sit for a few weeks. So if you rig for seawater flushing, also provide a means of purging the intake hose run with fresh water.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited to clarify location of small vented loop. Must be on the pressure side of the pump.

Edited by - Leon Sisson on 10/08/2006 23:03:02

Dave Otey
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
112 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2006 : 11:15:47

Leon, thanks for the comprehensive response. You covered items I had not yet thought about.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2006 : 11:49:15

As Leon said, one of the best hoses is SeaLand OdorSafe Plus. WM's catalog shows it as having an inner diameter of 1.5" @ $8.99/foot.

The way I see it, salt water is the root of the worst of the odors from a head. My new boat will have a SeaLand fresh-water-flush head with the holding tank directly below it (almost like a porta-potti). They claim it uses a pint per flush, which I'll gladly give up from my water tank. Simplest is best.

When heeling or in rough water, my recommendation (or order posted in my head) is to sit. In my new head, any handholds will be positioned accordingly. After all, I'm the one who has to clean up.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/05/2006 11:59:02

johnsonp
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
606 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2006 : 15:07:24

Well in real life conditions....
When I'm on deck in rough water or in extreme heeling I take a whiz down wind.
paulj C250wk #719

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2006 : 17:13:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 As Leon said, one of the best hoses is SeaLand OdorSafe Plus. WM's catalog shows it as having an inner diameter of 1.5" @ $8.99/foot.

The way I see it, salt water is the root of the worst of the odors from a head. My new boat will have a SeaLand fresh-water-flush head with the holding tank directly below it (almost like a porta-potti). They claim it uses a pint per flush, which I'll gladly give up from my water tank. Simplest is best.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

OK Dave, I can't take it, what did you get at Annapolis?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2006 : 20:31:46

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I ordered her at the Newport show (after a year of discussions with the builder). She's custom, so we'll have to wait for pics... I'll be visiting her at the plant and taking shots as she's built. But I don't know if I'll be able to take the abuse here when the time comes...

I'll still miss Passage, but I don't think she'll miss me.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/05/2006 20:33:55

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/06/2006 : 07:43:02

Is it a trawler? That would be cool. I could do that.

Edited by - on

IndyJim
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
130 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2006 : 19:00:08

Ben,
Two years ago I replaced ALL the hoses that have to do with my head and holding tank system. The reason wasn't that the hoses had deteriorated, just that I couldn't get rid of the the smell when I initially opened the boat up. To my knowledge, they were the original hoses and they had adopted (from 20 years of exposure) the "head smell".
I learned the hard way after removing the first hose, that feeding a new one through the same path was a challenge to say the least. So, I used some trusty duct tape to connect the end of the new one with the end of the ones I was removing. They snaked through the maze of turns extremely well. Just make sure your head is flushed extremely well before removing any lower drain hoses! That's not a mess that's fun to clean up! :)

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2006 : 20:25:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 Is it a trawler? That would be cool. I could do that.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
No--a little "sportier" than that (and fewer coins). But she'll have a nice, classic "Downeast" look...

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2006 : 06:13:39

Boston Whaler derivation?

hm....no wait - Egg Harbor?

Edited by - on

Justin
Admiral

Members Avatar

502 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2007 : 14:02:37

I'm going to be replacing my head hoses in the next month or so. One question I have is do I need a vented loop from the head output to the tank input? My current configuration from the PO has one, but he also plumbed it for overboard pumping. I plan to completely disconnect the overboard plumbing and make it directly to the tank and then deck pump out since I don't plan on going offshore. It will take quite a bit less hose if I skip the vented loop to the tank, less possible odor, less $$, simpler, and I would assume less chance of clogging. Looking at the C-25 parts catalog, they show just a short 3' hose in a straight line to the tank.

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

Members Avatar

844 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2007 : 01:38:26

As long as you remove the overboatrd discharge seacock and go directly to the tank, you shouldn't need a vented loop in the discharge line from the head to the tank. That vented loop was to avoid having water backflow from the seacock back into the head.

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.