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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

3rd generaton rudder update

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Initially Posted - 06/18/2002 : 11:08:50

Wow The boys and girls at Catalina, in Woodland Hills are right on top of this issue now. Although I have a 1st generation Kick-up rudder with a "hard-Link" to the 8 Hp Honda, I don't really seem to ever have much of a "shallows" problem. So I decided to try the 3rd gen rudder in hopes of improving some sailing comfort. Catalina had the new rudder at my door in 6 days. (From southern Cal...to Northern Cal.) They charged me $150.00, but forgot to include the pintles, and brackets for wheel steering. Those should be here soon.
I appreciate all the comments that you have made regarding installation, I feel I can overcome some of the hurdles others faced.
I may soon list the "Kick-up" rudder for quick sale, for those of you who like to rear-beach the boat or who have shallo water issues.

C250WB
#85

Edited by - on

jkey6
1st Mate

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71 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2002 : 07:39:03

Hi,

Can anyone comment on the performance difference between a 2nd and 3rd generation rudder?

We have a yr 2000 rudder with wheel steering. Considering the upgrade but am not sure how much better gen 3 is compared to gen 2.

Happy Sailing,

JKEY on "All Keyed Up"

Edited by - on

cathluk
Admiral

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USA
513 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2002 : 08:18:46

UPGRADE! There is no comparision on our 1997 wing keel. The rudder has made the boat soooo much better - we no longer round up uncontrollablly in gusts and we can actually sail at hull speed in 20 knots (with appropriate sail plan) rather than having to reduce so much sail we become a slug in order to maintain control of the boat. The boat is just so much more responsive with the balanced rudder.

Cathy
"Blown Away"
'97 C250WK #253

Edited by - on

Tupelo Honey
1st Mate

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USA
45 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2002 : 10:19:00

i installed the 3rd gen rudder last week. though i find it does still round up (if i've not stayed on top of my sail plan), it does seem more responsive, to the point of being almost too tender. much better on the shoulder, though, i will say that. and my tiller doesn't feel like it's about to snap like a matchstick, since all the stress caused by the 1st generation rudder is not gone.

good luck putting it on. i had a fairly easy time drilling and installing the pintiles while they were seated in their gudgeons. helps to have someone with a steady hand holding it for you.

d

Catalina 250WB
Long Island Sound
"Tupelo Honey"
<BR><img src="http://www.stardive.org/tupelo.jpg"<img src

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2002 : 12:22:45

Jkey, You didn't say if you have beaching or blade rudder. If it is the 2nd blade, then you want to upgrade to 3rd...no brainer. If you have the beaching, then you have options. The 2nd generation beaching can be balanced by raking it forward with little difficulty and doing so preserves your beaching rudder capabilities, forgivness, ease of beaching the boat, etc.

While I have not sailed with a 3rd... I know the great difference between the 2nd, prior to and after balancing. Those have also been attested to by several others who did the mods to balance.

What is wanted..is a balanced rudder.

On the other hand, I have decided to order the 3rd myself...and put it in storage. The at cost deal may evaporate someday...and if my second should fail, they are no longer available. I will stay however with the beaching as long as I can. The handling with the 2nd generation in a balanced position is super.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224

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rhilde
Deckhand

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4 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2002 : 02:15:59

I just got my 3rd generation rudder and I noticed the recess for the upper pintile is not the same on both sides of the rudder. The left side is 3.5" aft and the right side is 7" aft. 3.5" is barely deep enough to attach the pintile. Does anyone else have this?

Also on the forward edge of the rudder is two steps, does the smaller upper step positioned just aft (1") of the stern?

|
| |
stern ---> | |
| |
--------------------+ +-+
|
+----+
Rudder ----> |
|
|
|

Edited by - on

Tupelo Honey
1st Mate

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USA
45 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2002 : 12:55:30

hmm. my 3rd gen (just rec'd from the factory) had no difference in the pintile recesses. the lower step goes as close to the bottom of the transom as possible, i was told.

d

Catalina 250WB
Long Island Sound
"Tupelo Honey"
<BR><img src="http://www.stardive.org/tupelo.jpg"<img src

Edited by - on

Rollins
1st Mate

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USA
50 Posts

Response Posted - 06/22/2002 : 16:58:27

After the cable break on my WB 2002 (not fun having it hauled out) was wondering if "beaching is even a possiblity on this boat. I've heard that upward pressure on the board can cut the cable....true bummer for this boat. Just a thought....don't mean to be a pessimist.

Edited by - on

Tupelo Honey
1st Mate

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USA
45 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2002 : 11:20:22

CORRECTION. the 3rd gen rudder DOES have two different size recesses. i have no idea why, unless they've done it to balance it out more evenly--though i find it hard to believe catalina would have gone to this kind of detail. perhaps it's cut that way to give you more space to attach a steering connector to the motor?

d

Catalina 250WB
Long Island Sound
"Tupelo Honey"
<BR><img src="http://www.stardive.org/tupelo.jpg"<img src

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2002 : 11:11:05

Beaching in my opinion with the c250 would not include laying up on the beach during a tide and the force it would put on the center board. Rather, it refers to sticking the bow in the sand or simply backing in close enough to shore to use the swim ladder for access... To bear the boats weight on the center board is unwise I think and yes, unfriendly to the cable

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224

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andy
Navigator

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USA
228 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2002 : 14:47:10

Guys, I don't hesitate to beach my boat. I've done it many times but in sheltered areas on our lake. It's important to pick a good spot that won't get pounded by a thunderstorm gusts or waterskier wakes I've never had an issue damaging the swing keel or cable. I do, however, beach it stern in, keeping the paddle wheel for the knot meter out of the sand. Stern first makes it possible to drop the ladder and walk onto the beach. If you don't want do stick the boat in the sand, drop; the hook, back down st ern too, where it's shallow enought to step off and tie off to a rock or tree. We've done that many times too. Take advantage of the swing keel! Removing the 3rd gen rudder just takes a few seconds... I use a 1" dia. ring to hold it in place.

Andy Anderson
CSCO Kid C250WB #163
MHYC McCall Idaho

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2002 : 20:43:58

Last summer being my first with a sailboat, never the less a
C250 swinger and beaching rudder, I took some of Arlyns advice and went under the boat with a face mask and snorkel and rope tied around the bottom of the boat to look at the cable attachment and condition of cable with the keel down in about eight feet of water, not bad with the sun out. I also like to back in to islands with the stearn and tie off from the island. I use the bottom of the swim ladder as a reference point as to depth, if the swim ladder is within a foot of the bottom and keel up that's about as far as I go. Some times its best to just jump off and guide the boat in by hand, I always thought the swing keel was the weak point of the boat and treat it accordingly.

Bear on C250 WB S/N 089

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.