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 Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums
 General Sailing Forum
 Regarding the 170 foresail		  New Topic  Topic Locked
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existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts
Initially Posted - 10/06/2006 :  17:37:56  Show Profile
How do you rig the 170 on a 25? On my Capri, the 170 would be past the winches. Not so on a 25?

My 155 is such a bear to tack, that I try to jibe if at all possible instead, I can't imagine getting a 170 across the bow...
Rick
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sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts
Response Posted - 10/07/2006 :  22:34:15  Show Profile
Get me up to speed. It has been a while since racing but the 155 was the largest for the class C25, has there been a change? Yes the 155 is interesting to tack with but with a forward deck crew person they walk the sail across.
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Heartbeat
Navigator

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USA
161 Posts
Response Posted - 10/12/2006 :  13:48:57  Show Profile
Under PHRF rules, you can fly a 170 if you pay a penalty. (6 seconds or something like that.) A while back I read somone on here was doing just that. Claimed it worked well for them. I imagine it was either a short rig or very light air...

Matt Q.
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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts
Response Posted - 10/12/2006 :  18:52:45  Show Profile
Is there any reason why you can't put the genoa car behind the winch? And why should a 170 be harder to pull around the shrouds than a 155? It seems like a minor difference in that regard.
Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/12/2006 18:56:33
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SailCO26
Captain

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USA
457 Posts
Response Posted - 10/13/2006 :  08:36:17  Show Profile  Visit SailCO26's Homepage
"<i>And why should a 170 be harder to pull around the shrouds than a 155?</i>" - my guess would be 15% more time to tack the sail than a 155, which is 20% more than a 135. My crew already gripes about tacking the 155...

Jim
#183 - Team Short Bus
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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts
Response Posted - 10/13/2006 :  10:55:41  Show Profile
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by SailCO26</i>
<br />My crew already gripes about tacking the 155...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
That and generally nice Atlantic breezes are why I liked my roll-up 130.
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Gambit
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USA
160 Posts
Response Posted - 10/13/2006 :  13:04:03  Show Profile
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by SailCO26</i>
My crew already gripes about tacking the 155...

Jim
#183 - Team Short Bus
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

The flogging will continue until morale improves.

Trimming the 155 in the 12-15 mph range can be a pain. Although steering, I will usually tail while my wife grinds. A quick head-up into the wind can take enough weight off to get those last few inches.
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SailCO26
Captain

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457 Posts
Response Posted - 10/13/2006 :  16:43:16  Show Profile  Visit SailCO26's Homepage
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Gambit</i>
<br />The flogging will continue until morale improves.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I prefer keel-hauling.

Last weekend's regatta, Sat was sailed in 20-25kts. Not having a 135 (to be rectified this winter) and not being pleased with the performance with my 110 for racing, we decided to tough it out with the 155.

The foredecker went over the rail during a hard-core broach, and went under the boat between the keel and the rudder (which were mostly dry at that point, anyway...).

All ok, she was picked up by the Merit 25 following us around the course (guess they needed to be shown the way...) before we could get back to her. We had to DNF that race, but still took 3rd for the regatta.

Anyway, I'm using her as an example. Whine about the 155, get keel-hauled.

Jim
#183 - Team Short Bus
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existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts
Response Posted - 10/13/2006 :  17:31:07  Show Profile
I wasn't clear, I was talking about solo sailing. Even with it cross sheeted, I find it very difficult to get the 155 tacked. Much easier to jibe.
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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts
Response Posted - 10/14/2006 :  11:17:30  Show Profile
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by existentialsailor</i>
<br />I was talking about solo sailing. Even with it cross sheeted, I find it very difficult to get the 155 tacked...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
A masochistic sailor... Do you whip your back with chains, too?
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Champipple
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6855 Posts
Response Posted - 10/14/2006 :  11:44:22  Show Profile  Visit Champipple's Homepage
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Heartbeat</i>
<br />Under PHRF rules, you can fly a 170 if you pay a penalty. (6 seconds or something like that.) A while back I read somone on here was doing just that. Claimed it worked well for them. I imagine it was either a short rig or very light air...

Matt Q.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
As former measurer and long time phrf racer I can chime in here--

In most areas it is six seconds per mile, but not all some are as high as 12 seconds per mile and you carry that penalty whether you use it or not. So if it is blowing 20kts and you have a 135 up just like the rest of the gang, you are carrying a penalty and if you looked at the weather there is a good chance the penalty is in the back of the truck on land.

Some PHRF areas do not allow one at all period end of story. Our Class rules do not allow a sail with an LP bigger than 155.
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Bruce Baker
Captain

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USA
402 Posts
Response Posted - 10/16/2006 :  10:41:47  Show Profile
As one who uses a 170 most of the time:
1. We pay a PHRF penalty of 6 seconds a mile, whether we use it or not. We always use it. It's well worth it.
2. It IS a pain to tack. I use one long jib sheet, but it still gets caught on shrouds.
3. The blocks are about nine inches behind the winches. That's not a problem.
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SailCO26
Captain

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457 Posts
Response Posted - 10/17/2006 :  10:05:05  Show Profile  Visit SailCO26's Homepage
IMHO, "hand-tacking" is the best way to tack a 170 (foredeck carries the clew across the dance floor). In very light air (when you're going to fly that monster) the brief period with extra weight on the bow is offset by a) a quicker/cleaner tack; and b) saving the life of the sail. The 170 should be very lightweight material, and less flogging/flapping and/or being dragged across the stays/shrouds will extend the life. I'm considering going to hand-tacking the 155 in the future (during light air).

Now single-handing a 170 cross-sheeted, THAT should be interesting indeed....
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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts
Response Posted - 10/17/2006 :  10:19:20  Show Profile  Visit Champipple's Homepage
170 should also be roll tacked - considering the size relative to the wind.

In many cases we roll tack the 155 too
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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
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