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existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/16/2006 : 18:20:19

Given the choice for a boat on the ocean, would you choose a 6 HP extra long shaft or an 8 HP long shaft? Will the extra 5 inches be better put to use than the extra 2 HP ?

Is the extra 2 HP worth the additional 25 pounds hanging off the stern?

I'll be repleacing a 4.5HP tired long shaft. I found it inadequte in a blow when towing my kayaks.

Rick

Edited by - existentialsailor on 10/16/2006 18:22:20

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2006 : 18:33:18

I have a Honda 8 hp extra long shaft power thrust model. When motoring upwind through 4 foot waves and 15 knot winds for 40 miles last winter I was really glad to have the power, length, and large blades on the power thrust motor.
I wouldn't consider either of your two options. That's my opinion, I may be wrong

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2006 : 21:15:15

Go for the XL shaft. A short shaft outboard in the ocean will ventilate as the boat pitches

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2006 : 21:21:53

It seems that the 9.8 Nissan/Tohatsu extra-long 4-stroke is the engine of choice here these days... On big water, the shaft length is more important that the hp--all the hp in the world doesn't do any good when the prop is spinning in air. But why take a chance on 6 hp when for a few hundred more you'll have a proven, ample amount of power (and a smoother, quieter engine that doesn't have to work as hard)? Six is probably fine for a lake boat, but is dubious on big water or in heavy air. On the other hand, I can attest that the Honda high-thrust 8 (and I'm sure the similar Yamaha) is ample for our boats, in large part due to the prop.

Another variable is how you plan to use the engine... If you day-sail or race, you just want to get in and out of your marina or launching location. If you cruise, you want to be able to get places under power when conditions are flat, or snotty and on the nose. For the former, less hp is OK... for the latter, you want something that will move you comfortably for a distance and through seas and wind. The cruiser in a C-25 or 250, IMHO, will be more comfortable with an 8 or above. In the Honda, 8 is all you need--the 9.9 is the same engine tuned for planing hulls and costing some $300 more.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/16/2006 21:34:09

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2006 : 22:30:52

I used a Chrysler 9.9 Sailor for 25 years and then used the input from the Forum and ordered the Honda 9.9 XLS. Dealer offered the 15 for the same sale price and I thought about it for a minute before deciding. After the last cruise everything is true you read including the fuel use going from 2 cycle to 4 cycle. The 15 also came with everything including power tilt/lift so if I keep this one going for 25 years I'll be 92 which is ok as my Dad is 100.

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existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2006 : 05:38:27

Thanks guys, many well made points.
Keep in mind that the Capri is 2000 pounds lighter than a C25 and was never recommended for anything over a 6 HP. I felt I might be able to get away with an 8 HP because they seem to be making the motors lighter these days. My current 4.5 HP weighs 69 pounds.
I'll check out the Honda, it wasn't on my list.

Edited by - on

Bruce Baker
Captain

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USA
402 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2006 : 07:19:50

I wouldn't buy a Honda outboard, given the problems I've seen all around me in my marina. I've owned three Honda motorcycles and a Honda Accord. All were excellent, but it doesn't look like that record of reliability translates to their outboards.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2006 : 07:36:15

I suspect that in order to meet the 2006 emmissions requirements, all outboards will become less reliable, and more likely to to have the needle jets clogged up.

I'm really happy with my Honda.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2006 : 08:26:24

Sorry Rick--I missed the Capri variable... You're probably right about 6 hp being good, but I'd still go for the 25" shaft. Same length boat, so same tendency to lift the prop. That hp recommendation was probably printed before 4-strokes became popular--they're on average significantly heavier. Tohatsu is offering a relatively light XLS 4-stroke 6 now--that could be your answer.

As to reliability, the mechanics I've talked to have been seeing problems across the board, especially with the newer engines. The older 2-strokes are jetted to dump lots of oil into the cylinders, most of which goes out the exhaust into the water. They don't care much what's going through there...

The following steps are mandatory IMHO to protect your new investment if there's ethanol in the gas in your area:

1. Install an external Racor water separator/fuel filter. I like the ones with clear bowls and bleeder valves at the bottom.

2. Put stabilizer in every tank of gas, all season. A Honda mechanic recommended PRI-G to me as the best for maintaining the octane and preventing varnish. You can look it up on the web and buy it at WM. Be aware that PRI-D is for diesel fuel. Startron and Stabil are also considered good.

3. If your fuel line and primer bulb are more than 5 years old, replace them. Ethanol can deteriorate the older materials--especially the bulbs.

Happy hunting!

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/17/2006 08:31:20

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3486 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2006 : 18:30:33

I am also very happy with my 9.9hp Honda. I use the small 3 gallon tank, use fuel stabilizer but generally fill more frequently so gas is not in there all that long and I run the gas out of the motor everytime I come back to the dock - I just pull the gas line out and let it run till it konks out. Motor is very reliable.

Edited by - on

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2006 : 05:30:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gloss
 I suspect that in order to meet the 2006 emmissions requirements, all outboards will become less reliable, and more likely to to have the needle jets clogged up.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Unfortunately, this will be the result of applying the same standards to engines that burn 25 gallons per season, to engines that burn 50 gallons per hour.

I really don't want to put to sea with an outboard designed by politicians, and the lack of safety it entails so I'm taking very good care of my 2 cycle 9.9 Johnson Sailmaster as well as my "backup" '83 Evinrude Yachtwin.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2006 : 09:19:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by oldsalt
 ...so I'm taking very good care of my 2 cycle 9.9 Johnson Sailmaster as well as my "backup" '83 Evinrude Yachtwin.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Take care of the fuel and its delivery system or the same fate will visit you. Ethanol is the problem--it's getting 2-strokes, too, especially as it cleans out tanks and deteriorates supply lines. There lies the real political folly...

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/18/2006 09:20:17

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2006 : 18:29:12

one of my favorite quotes of all time is by Will Rogers:

"It's a good thing we don't get all the government we pay for"

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