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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

"simple" outhaul, anyone?

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millermg
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159 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/08/2006 : 18:23:09

Maybe I've spent too much time in raceboats, but being new to the C25 it floors me these were built with no outhaul control (or cunningham, for that matter, though that's easily remedied). I really like Harken's suggested boom-internal outhaul w/ purchase, but it seems like a lot of work! I've got some ideas, but I thought I'd ask: Anyone out there done a simpler-to-install outhaul with good results?

1983 C25 FK/SR Finistere
Garner
Olympia WA
~/)~
~~~

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2006 : 19:40:57

Hi Garner, I picked up two double blocks at a WM that was closing and put one on the sail and one on the end of the boom and Bob's your uncle, it works great. Cheers.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2006 : 19:42:13

It may have been an 'option', but most C25's I've seen have a 4:1 factory outhaul.

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Phredde
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125 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2006 : 19:49:46

I did something similar to djn, I had an old block and tackle from an adjustable backstay (I think). Connected the line to the sail and the block to the end of the boom, and it seems to work well. I am no racer though, so really don't know much about using it!

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2006 : 20:01:28

Stuff evolves on my boats, Here is the first simple outhaul I put on my 89. It uses A harken single airblock with becket and cam, a single Harken micro with the airblock and a Harken double micro on the clew. Plenty of power, OK to get to when needed, and reasonably compact. I have since tossed the airblock and single micro and replaced them with a double micro with a becket, I mounted a small race clam cleat with fairlead on the aft starboard side of the boom. In order for the pull to be to the aft the double with becket are at the clew and the double is at the end cap. This is even more compact and once again ok to get to most of the time. Either of these solutions very simple and cheap. I bought an internal 8:1 kit and sent it back, I had wanted a cleaner boom on this boat and thought internal was the way to go. instead I went minimalist.

Here is the 89 converted to the double micros and clam cleat.

Here is both ends of the stock Catalina outhaul in 82

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 11/09/2006 10:25:03

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Response Posted - 11/08/2006 : 22:21:47

My 1978's original 2:1 outhaul which we modified to a 5:1. It really depends on the year of the boat and how savvy the owner was. If you got a boat that was owned by an individual who only sailed inland lakes in good weather and didn't go out often, the 2 to one was probably enough.

you should be able to check the parts manuals to see what might have been the original outhaul

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millermg
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159 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2006 : 23:26:33

Thanks, these pics help. My manual that came w/ the boat makes no reference to an outhaul, just a line tied between boom and clew. My thoughts at first was sim to the 2:1 stock '82 Frank posted above, (without leading to the mast) I find it hard to believe 2:1 wouldn't be enough, but now you've got me thinking of more purchase power!

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aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 11/09/2006 : 06:46:35

Like Garner, my 88 did not come with an outhaul and did not mention one in the owners manual. I have since installed the internal 4:1 system from Catalina Direct. I am satisfied with its performance although there were initial problems with the blocks catching screw ends inside the boom. My solution was to cut the screws shorter and reinstall them.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/09/2006 : 09:50:37

I made a 4:1 external outhaul using two double blocks, one on the clew and one on the end of the boom. The tail for the outhaul was led back to a cabintop clutch.

[url="http://www.harken.com/rigtips/outhaul.php"]Harken Outhaul Systems[/url]

Edited by - dlucier on 11/09/2006 09:55:32

dmattlin
1st Mate

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USA
39 Posts

Response Posted - 11/09/2006 : 10:37:39

I have the same problem as Phredde "I am no racer though, so really don't know much about using it!".. I have an outhaul installed and have played with it a bit. I have heard that you can use it to reduce heel, is this true..??
What is it for (other than tightening the sail) and when do I use it?

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/09/2006 : 12:24:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmattlin
 I have the same problem as Phredde "I am no racer though, so really don't know much about using it!".. I have an outhaul installed and have played with it a bit. I have heard that you can use it to reduce heel, is this true..??
What is it for (other than tightening the sail) and when do I use it?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You have just hit on one of my soap boxes. The physics and resultant dynamics of sailing are unusual in the way they manifest on a sailboat. Most machines involving the conversion of energy into motion begin with low efficiency and people spend wads of money to improve that efficiency to get more power per unit of power. A sailboat in its minimalist state is very efficient and very powerful. Virtually every piece of hardware, every toy, every sailing option on a boat is there for the purpose of reducing the efficiency and power of the boat. The simple mainsail outhaul is there to hold the clew in one position on the boom. The outhaul is made adjustable so a person can change the chord depth of the lower section of the sail, flattening the sail reduces the chord depth and reduces the power of the sail. It reduces heeling by flattening the sail, allowing less pressure difference on the two sides of the sail and reducing the lift of the main which has a direction that is nearly perpendicular to the direction you want to go. In other words it is pulling you sideways and since you have a hull and foil form (keel) which has the sole job of resisting lateral forces the sideways force of the sail rolls the hull to leeward; the boat heels. Less power = less heel.
My soap box here is that everyone should buy and learn to use every piece of hardware available for their rig so they can reduce power when needed and be safer on the water. A boat with no adjustments to the rig and sails is an unsafe boat. Nearly all racing hardware is there to depower a boat. Many cruisers mock racing boats as worn out and full of expensive toys, racing boats are the safest most well maintained boats on the water. (sounding a little more preachy now?)

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 11/09/2006 12:28:30

ilnadi
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 11/09/2006 : 12:34:29

ok, someone fill me in. Is there any use to an outhaul on a rope-footed sail?

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 11/09/2006 : 13:09:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">ok, someone fill me in. Is there any use to an outhaul on a rope-footed sail?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Sure. Regardless of whether your mainsail is rope-footed or loose-footed, you can use an adjustable outhaul to change its draft. The only difference between the two is that a loose-footed mainsail is capable of a wider range of adjustment than a rope footed one. You can create a much deeper pocket with a loose-footed mainsail than with a rope-footed one.

Edited by - on

DaveC25
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USA
152 Posts

Response Posted - 11/09/2006 : 13:12:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ilnadi
 ok, someone fill me in. Is there any use to an outhaul on a rope-footed sail?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

To help bend on the sail. :)

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 11/09/2006 : 14:16:36

Frank,

Good explanation and I agree with you whole heartedly on equipment and safety. I would only add that if you intend single handing you should be doubly concerned about the sail handling equipment on your boat. Purchase as much as you can afford, install it so that you spend as little time as possible out of the cockpit, and learn how to use it efficiently.

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millermg
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159 Posts

Response Posted - 11/09/2006 : 18:41:26

If I may add to Frank's excellent explanation of outhauls, cruisers typically rely on reefing to de-power the main sail, racers rarely reef (unless it's blowing like stink) but rely on 3 controls, in order of use:

1) outhaul- which depowers the lower part of the sail, as explained by Frank. Generally speaking, a flatter sail also helps you point better, at the sacrifice of power.

2) backstay tension- this bends the mast by compressing it so it arcs forward from the center, flattening the middle of the sail by stretching the luff forward with it. (Outhaul stretches by pulling the leech back, backstay by pulling the luff forward) Backstay tension also depowers the headsail, and allows it to point better by reducing the sag in the forestay, creating a less-full entry. Incidentally, I learned on the first sail on my boat you must keep your lower aft shrouds quite loose to even incur a mild amount of mast bend. I've not experienced enough wind yet to tell if this control is terribly effective on a C25.

3) main sheet tension- the more you let off the tension and allow the boom to rise, the more the leech is allowed to twist open, further flattening the sail and spilling wind. Here is where you want to use your traveller- upwind bring it UP (not down) which gets the boom to centerline with slack in the sheet. Don't forget to ease the vang, or the boom won't rise. This is also the same concept as depowering your headsail by moving your cars aft when it blows- this allows the foot of the sail to rise, while flattening the bottom part of the sail.

These controls allow you to balance power with pointing ability, to get the most out of your boat upwind. Whether you're racing other boats or racing to the next marina bar, it's the constant attention needed get the most performance out of the wind cards nature deals you each and every sail that keeps me coming back for more.

Edited by - on

dmattlin
1st Mate

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USA
39 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2006 : 09:58:42

I visited my local sailing shop and picked up all the parts I needed to build up a new outhaul. I used the Double micro--> Fiddle with clam design (thanks Fhopper. It went together very easy and looks great. I am able to get planty of tension with very little effort. Hopefuly I can try it out this weekend.

Going to the Sailing Supplie shop is always dagerous. While I was there I picked a fow other items. Mail Sheet line, Boom Vang line, extra blocks and shackles, new line hangers, parts and line to build a new topping lift, new line for the out haul and new lines for the Reefing system... SWEW...!!!

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2006 : 11:49:23

You need to cruise eBaymotors.com sailing hardware I buy a lot of stuff there. Today I bought a Weems & Plath Large Yacht Lamp knock off new in a box for $39. Defender wants $90 on sale. I hope the knock off is ok.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 11/11/2006 10:22:29

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2006 : 18:15:23

make sure you cruise there by going to the links page and clicking on the ebay logo

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 11/11/2006 : 00:39:47

Soap Boxes

I sometimes use an outhaul and cunningham, but I can depower by bearing off, running the sheets a bit, or slipping the traveler to leeward. On a very windy day, I can set a reef before I leave the dock. Fine control is essential for racing, but most of us are happy with reasonably good sail shape and can sail quite safely without going broke. There are many boats and many styles to fit the needs of many sailors. We don't all need a Ferrari for a sunday drive

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/11/2006 : 10:58:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave5041
 Soap Boxes

I sometimes use an outhaul and cunningham, but I can depower by bearing off, running the sheets a bit, or slipping the traveler to leeward. On a very windy day, I can set a reef before I leave the dock. Fine control is essential for racing, but most of us are happy with reasonably good sail shape and can sail quite safely without going broke. There are many boats and many styles to fit the needs of many sailors. We don't all need a Ferrari for a sunday drive
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hi David, you are right.
If you have lurked long before posting then you know the unspoken truth this forum proves. We are a huge Association made up of members from an amazing range of locations. That which unites us is this remarkable group of 25 foot boats built by Catalina. That we all own one of the three basic types; Capri 25, Catalina 250 or Catalina 25 unites us as people who have come to these boats for their value and capability. I think we all believe we have the best boat we can afford, that is why we have them instead of some other boat. Another very common trait among us is a love of ingenuity, whether of that shown by the designer of our boats or that shown by the guy down the dock that we admire. I think we all enjoy applying a little ingenuity to get a desired result. How any one skipper satisfies that desire to manage an outcome is up to that skipper.
I am an inland lake sailor on a mud hole in Kansas, we have nowhere to sail to and nothing to see. For me that means I get my pleasure from sailing the boat in the widest range of conditions possible and hopefully doing it a little better every time. I have a drifter for light air and the rest of my boat is rigged to keep me on the water in up to 30 knots of wind. High wind sailing is what I do to cruise. I see a boat as a complex machine with interfacing systems. Controlling and redesigning those systems is a big part of why I sail.
Everyone here picks their priorities and their boats reflect them, we all learn from each other because of those differences in priorities. I do however stand by my statement that having sail controls and using them makes a boat safer, I believe that is a "universal".

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 11/11/2006 11:47:57

crcalhoon
Captain

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USA
303 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2006 : 18:12:27

Frank, we seem to agree on a lot of things. I like that philosophy above. I have sailed for about 30 years, minus a few, and only yesterday crewed in my first three sailboat races. Spinnaker and all. I will have to admit that it was interesting. I never saw so many lines and ropes and gilhickies and thingamabobs. My ultimate point being that I have considered myself to be a decent, safe sailor but boy, do I got a lot to learn. Lessons in the past have always been to keep the darn thing upright so I don't spill the coffee. But I too am now going to sail on a small, inland lake in Arkansas. There's nowhere to go and nothing to do but sail in small circles. Racing is beginning to look like the way to go. And at my age, learning something new can't be all bad.

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