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Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/13/2006 : 13:09:45

I always wanted to watch the Capri 25 in heavy weather and see a broach, I found this on YouTube. Amaxing part is that the kid on the rail never moves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whSHw4k2yLo

C.S. McKillip
Ericson 33

Edited by - on

PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2006 : 13:24:20

As they say out here on West Coast 'caca pasa.'

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2006 : 13:51:37

Wow! Now I REALLY can't wait until Nationals! Seriously though, it looks as though only bumps and bruises were sustained, which is a miracle. I can't believe that one dude wasn't wearing a life jacket. Bad decision that, particularly in those conditions.

Thrilling video though!

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2006 : 14:01:51

To my knowledge none of the people associated with the WYC Capri 25 Nationals belong to our association. I think that is a sad thing.

Edited by - on

djn
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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2006 : 15:10:08

Great video, glad everyone is OK. Cheers.

Edited by - on

takokichi
Captain

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USA
321 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2006 : 16:58:39

holy crap!

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2006 : 17:13:57

Hey Frank, I know that I had a hard time just getting the WYC People envolved with the Yahoo site. I know that Kia Kroll "kroll at oncostim.com" is the fleet captain for the 2006 season. Why doesn't the board really put forth some kind of effort to contact him, and any other WYC member. I agree with you on the subject at hand. There have been only a select few that really have been active on the Yahoo site.

I myself used to be all over the WYC forum pages when I first bought our Capri 25. It got spammed and that was it, 3 years of post gone. I have sent many emails to the group list http://lists.wyc.org/listinfo/capri25 the board might write to it and see what happens, I am on the email list as are many other WYC members. I have emailed them many times about the yahoo site, and this site.

I also know that WYC holds their own Nationals, and are fleet #1, but who made the fleet? I thought that you had to be in an association, We have 6 Capri 25's, can we be Fleet #2? Frankly (no pun intended) I have given up, I gave the Yahoo group over to Rick because I was going to shut it down and allow the membership to join this forum, after several emails from the membership I gave it up also.

WYC has 30+ Capri 25's they meet at the club, see each other at the docks, and race in their backyard. Why travel for Nationals? why have a fourm when its a local phone call, or 2 spaces down the dock to ask a question?

I would like to bring this subject up on the 15th if possible, I have tried many times, maybee in 2007 I will just drive up there.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2006 : 17:22:25

As a non-racer with practically no spinnker experience, I'm wondering if it is commonplace for racers to fly a spinnaker in 20knts with gusts?

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2006 : 18:11:38

Chris, don't the WYC rules provide that the winner of their National Regatta gets to determine the site of the next Regatta? If so, then, if you can win it, you can schedule it with ours. Then, when they want to know the time, place, and other details, they'll have to log onto our website. If they visit and stay to chat a little, they might get "hooked" on this forum, like the rest of us. It's asking a lot of you, but I know you can do it!

Edited by - on

Bubba
Admiral

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USA
542 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2006 : 18:32:57

Ditto Don's question.
Looks like the main was reefed...

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2006 : 19:16:26

"As a non-racer with practically no spinnker experience, I'm wondering if it is commonplace for racers to fly a spinnaker in 20knts with gusts?"

If you want to win... you've got to push the limits. They looked like they were doing ok until the halyard started slipping through the cleat.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2006 : 19:17:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">As a non-racer with practically no spinnker experience, I'm wondering if it is commonplace for racers to fly a spinnaker in 20knts with gusts?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">In last summer's Governor's Cup race, we saw 3-4 spinnakers explode in about 25 kts. of wind, but even then, most of the racers didn't take their chutes down. A heavy weather chute can take a lot of wind, but, as you can see from the video, they can get out of control very fast, and once they start to broach, you usually can't stop them.

If one racer pops a chute, all the rest of them are likely to follow suit, even though they know they'll be on the ragged edge of disaster. They don't want anyone to have a bigger "motor" than them, and they'll gamble a $1,000. spinnaker to keep up.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2006 : 19:41:46

WOW! awesome footage.

Ok, now, over the amazement... how come one of the crew was not wearing a lifejacket!!!!!!

We just spent the weekend up in Cocoa Beach, during our stay we heard the news about the family that were on a sinking boat in a lake.... sadly not all were wearing lifejackets... 2 children were missing last we heard.

Life jackets are no use in the cabin!!!!!!

(Of course, I can say this because we just purchased a new $99 auto inflate jacket at WM. I literally forgot I was wearing it. It sure made peggy feel more comfortable.. she's getting a new one as an early chrimbo gift before our next trip weekend of Dec 1st.)

Paul.

Edited by - on

dontluff
Deckhand

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Canada
22 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2006 : 21:15:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 As a non-racer with practically no spinnker experience, I'm wondering if it is commonplace for racers to fly a spinnaker in 20knts with gusts?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Definitely. A Capri 25 will plane at 15knots on a 25+ knot broad reach. At that speed, the apparent wind speed is less and there is less gear strain than limping along at 8 to 10 knots. On top of that it's a whole lot more fun. In either the 1981, 82, or 83 Blockhouse Bay Race (I can't remember which as we won it three years in a row against a fleet of about 50 boats) we covered the 20 miles from Niagara to the finish off Toronto in 1.5 hours !!! It was like sailing a 505 all the way. The bow wave was behind the shrouds and there was this satisfying hum from the rudder and keel. The stern wake was a thing of joy. We sailed past the big 51ft C&C Phantom as if it were standing still. I think I have some old pics someone else took and I'll try and find them.

You can greatly reduce the tendency to broach in heavy air broad reaching and running by having snatch blocks (or better yet twing lines) up near the chain plates for both the sheet and guy. This not only stops the chute from oscilating from side to side (the death roll), but the load on the sheets and guys are pulling the boat up and helps it plane. If the sheet is left on the transom, not only does it stop you from dumping the main, but the load is pulling the leeward corner of the transom. If you start to lose the helm, the chute will pull the transom round even more, causing you to round up.

The other thing to do is slightly lower the pole end and over trim the sheet. This straps the chute down to further reduce the oscillating and death rolls. In really heavy air (25+), it also helps to use double sheets and guys so that you can end-for-end gybe with no load on the lazy sheets and guys. This means you can hook it all up on the new sheet and guy as the pole comes off ther mast, with no load on the new sheet and guy (i.e. flying it slightly strapped on the old sheet and guy). When the foredeck person has the pole back on the mast, take the load on the new sheets and guys, heat the boat up a little before the gybe to build boat speed (to reduce the apparent wind speed) and time the gybe when the boat is surfing over the crest of a wave. There will be less load on the chute.

There are so many things going wrong in this video, it's sad and very unsafe. Well before it all went south, you can see the vang is way too loose. I know it can be fast in terms of VMG to run deep/by the lee in a Capri, but in this air they just dont have the experience and would be better off to be running downwind angles of about 160 to 150 degrees true to plane and avoid the rolling.

In addition, someone onboard is calling to drop the chute halyard before they have any control over the sheet or the guy. This is definitely a "panic-mode" call. This will be a certain way to "shrimp" it, tear the sail and if it was really windy, pull the boat flat in the water possibly leading to worse issues.

The first reflex should be to let the guy go (since they cant reach it to trip it) and simultaneously haul in on the spinnaker sheet hard behind the main. Note: In these conditions, if the sheet is led through a snatch block up forward as mentioned earlier (or twinged forward), then as you grind in the sheet, it will naturally come in behind the main and not fly out behind the boat.
Once it's there and under control, the halyard should then be eased to drop it.

Re-lead the guy, pack the chute and get it up again with a few YEEEHAAA's (to ease crew tension!)

When I sailed my Capri in San Franciso, 25knots was the norm and broaching was a definite possibility if you didn't do the above, and even then we had some interesting wipeouts.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2006 : 06:59:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">You can greatly reduce the tendency to broach in heavy air broad reaching and running by having snatch blocks (or better yet twing lines) up near the chain plates for both the sheet and guy. This not only stops the chute from oscilating from side to side (the death roll), but the load on the sheets and guys are pulling the boat up and helps it plane. If the sheet is left on the transom, not only does it stop you from dumping the main, but the load is pulling the leeward corner of the transom. If you start to lose the helm, the chute will pull the transom round even more, causing you to round up.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Brilliant. I am sure this is not a secret but I have never heard it explained before, thanks.

Edited by - on

SailCO26
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2006 : 09:17:32

Ahhhh, reminiscient of this year's Columbus Day Regatta at Chatfield in CO. Winds 20-23G27+. In R2 we round the 1st WW mark in 3rd but about 200yds back from 1 and 2, who're both flying chutes. 4 and 5 rounded behind us but did not set. We elected to set in an attempt to catch up with 1/2. The result was similar to the video, including our 4deck taking time off for a swim. She was recovered by 4, we retired the race.

No reef in the main, as IMHO most of the power on this boat comes from the headsail. Unfortunately, we didnt have a 135 so were running the 155 (the 110 was still underpowered). Adding a 135 to the inventory (as well as twings to the spin setup) are high on the list for this winter.

4deck was fine (if a bit skittish about getting back on the bow!), she's forgiven me (mostly!), and we still took 3rd in the regatta. Fun in hindsight, but a wild ride at the time.

Jim
#183 - Team Short Bus

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2006 : 11:55:19

In 2005 during the MS Regatta the wind was in the high 20's, well I would say 22 but it felt like 30. My older brother and I had taken the boat out a week earlier and I got some fordeck practice in. At the start of the MS race we set the 130% up and the boat fell over, and there was no helm at all. The 130% came down really fast and I put the 105% up and the boat was felt balanced. We hit the line at the start early by 1 min, so we rounded the pin end and came back up for our timed start (portsmith rating).

After the start we were heading for the windward mark, and the boat was healing over so that the rail was burried in the water (I have no reef point in our main yet). we round the WW mark and I get everything set and ready to go (never done fordeck) pole set, and I hoist the chute. My wife trims the kite on the S2 7.9 so she is right at home, and we are screaming down the lake passing everything. I have said this before and I will say it again, I have never felt a sailboat take of like the Capri 25 did that day. Twings were on hard, pole was square to the wind, and we were flying.

So we come to the gybe mark, and I go forward to get the boat ready to gybe, Older brother is at the helm, and I tell him to go ahead and gybe the main so its behind the chute, Pole is now off the sheet and mast and I can't get the fricken thing made on the new sheet, the pole is beating the crap out of me, and my wife is having a very hard time controling the sheet and the guy. Gust hits and I see the spinnaker verticle above me, both the clews are 15'-0" in the air, and my wife now has got some good burnes on her fingers (note: heavy air Full Gloves not 3/4). I am all over the fordeck and the pole is still not made, I release the clutch on the spinnaker halyard, and let the pole flop around as I take the guy and pull the spinnaker in.

We get everything under control, I grab the rigging tape and take care of my wifes burns, get the sheet and the guy squared away, hoist the 105%, and I look at everyones face and tell the crew that its time to sit back and relax, I drink a fast beer, and we round the LW mark and head back upwind.

It was a fun race, I would never put someone in the place I took that day. I have gained a great respect for the "fordeck".

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2006 : 12:15:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
The first reflex should be to let the guy go (since they cant reach it to trip it) and simultaneously haul in on the spinnaker sheet hard behind the main. Note: In these conditions, if the sheet is led through a snatch block up forward as mentioned earlier (or twinged forward), then as you grind in the sheet, it will naturally come in behind the main and not fly out behind the boat.
Once it's there and under control, the halyard should then be eased to drop it.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

From a guy who has been knocked down a few times, I agree with everything you are saying. However, I couldn’t tell if you when you referenced letting the guy go forward you were referring to dropping the chute or releasing it during the broach. I will state I didn't see the video but will try and watch it tonight and maybe that will put it more into perspective.

Based on your last sentence in that paragraph I am guessing that you are referring to dousing the kite, if that is the case you are very correct. However for the benefit of the guys here who don’t sail with a symmetrical spinnaker or are thinking of hoisting one soon it is very important to note you need to do this (run the guy) once the boat is back on its feet not sooner.

Releasing the guy during a broach will cause a myriad of different issues. Amongst them: You stand a chance of the sail filling while broached. If it fills, you will impede the righting capability of the keel or possibly keeping you down.

Second, releasing the guy will ease the pole forward on the forestay and when you do pop back up you will now have your sail set for a tight kite reach. All of the load will be on the forestay. If the forestay goes, the sail will take the mast down. Not safe, not pretty, not fun.

The last of the major issues, and this is one of the most common, is that if the sail doesn’t fill and the load on the forestay doesn’t cause major failure, you’ve set yourself up to repeat this process in the next blow. Granted, if you aren’t on the boat, watching the sail and boat pop back up and shake itself off like a wet dog repeatedly is a very interesting sight to see – but it isn’t a show you want to be selling tickets for.

I can’t speak for the Catalina 25’s because we won’t put up the kite in that kind of weather, but for most race boats like the Capri will do fine with just jib and main. When it gets up that high in wind speed, many times you get good performance by pumping the jib and the main on the back of the waves and surfing the boat without a kite. You are still planning, but are under control.

Edited by - Champipple on 11/14/2006 15:33:09

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Response Posted - 11/14/2006 : 18:49:03

Tim,

Got any recomendations for improving this set up?

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2006 : 19:13:55

That's the standard setup. I really don't think double sheets and guys in heavy weather are going to provide any additional advantage on a boat this size Therefore I think everything you have is looking good. I'm guessing the twing/tweakers and the pole up/down are in a spot where they can be adjusted as needed?

dw

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2006 : 19:32:18

I just had a chance to watch about 4 of the 5 odd minutes of this.

My observations

This was a newer crew – taping the event was undoubtedly a training aid

The skipper was way too inexperienced for the conditions – “what do I do?”

Rest of the crew was also rather wet behind the ears.

My thoughts –

Life jackets should have been mandated by the “tactician” in these conditions.
If the main was reefed, and the boat is a main driven boat, then you probably would get just as much out of her with jib and main and maintain more control.

Nobody through any type 4 PFD to the MOB

Nobody had a knife handy. When someone goes over you don’t really worry about your sail anymore. You cut the lines and let her flog.

They didn’t even really broach. they came darn close, but if they broached mr. blue life jacket – the guy with the deer in the headlights look – would have never been able to hang on to the low side…

Edited by - on

dontluff
Deckhand

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Canada
22 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2006 : 20:17:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Duane Wolff
From a guy who has been knocked down a few times, I agree with everything you are saying...... However, I couldn’t tell if you when you referenced letting the guy go forward you were referring to dropping the chute or releasing it during the broach.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
My comments are only in the context of recovering from this evidently out of control situation. What are the options?
- Letting the halyard go altogether.....a definite no-no as the chute will fly away from the boat, still filled initially and will keep hauling the boat over. If eventually the entire halyard feeds out of the mast, there goes the rest of the race.
- Letting the sheet out. In a graceful round up? yes this should be the first reflex. In this situation? I wouldn't as explained in my earlier post since this will let the chute fly high and while it is still initially filled, will hold you over.
- Let the guy go completely. Not ideal but this sitation is not ideal. Since the chute is already skying and the foredeck crew has no chance of tripping the guy while the boat is laid over, the cockpit crew are the only people that can release the tack of the chute by letting the guy run out. Again...not ideal but the better of a bad situation. Notice in the video, that the crew, and sheet winch are underwater and letting the sheet go would possibly put them in greater jeopardy getting caught in a sheet and pulled down to the underwater rail.
Letting the guy go while the sheet is trimmed in, will let the chute flag to leeward and as more of the guy runs rapidly forward, and out through the pole end, the chute will be close to the boat behind the main and has a chance of being recovered. Could someone get caught in the tail of the guy as it is left to run out? Yes they could. The whole siuation is bad, but at least they would be pulled to the high side !!

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Releasing the guy during a broach will cause a myriad of different issues. Amongst them: You stand a chance of the sail filling while broached. If it fills, you will impede the righting capability of the keel or possibly keeping you down.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The chute is already filled and holding the boat down. Something has to be released so based on my list of alternatives above, I would choose to let the guy go.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Second, releasing the guy will ease the pole forward on the forestay and when you do pop back up you will now have your sail set for a tight kite reach. All of the load will be on the forestay. If the forestay goes, the sail will take the mast down. Not safe, not pretty, not fun.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yes the pole will bang against the forestay and if the guy continues to run out, there will be less load on the pole. When the boat comes up after dumping the guy, you won't be reaching with the chute filled. You will be reaching with the chute flogging behind the main and in a better position to retrieve it. In this video, the pole is out of control anyway and not attached to the boat.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> The last of the major issues, and this is one of the most common, is that if the sail doesn’t fill and the load on the forestay doesn’t cause major failure, you’ve set yourself up to repeat this process in the next blow.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

As it seems they recovered miraculously, I think this crew needs to view this video critically to realize that:
1. Having 6 people aboard in these conditions is asking for trouble. In fact 6 people on board a Capri 25 in any conditions is not a good idea. People will be tripping over each other. Isn't there a crew limitation in the class, particularly at a National regatta??
2. having 6 people aboard that have evidently no experience in flying a chute or helming the boat in these conditions is asking for trouble
3. The skipper should have been able to make a pragmatic call to say go wing-and wing with a jib, given the crew experience. The race isn't as important as keeping the boat and crew safe.
4. They had a person overboard and if it wasn't for another boater, could have lost them. If they had been on the ocean or San Francisco Bay with big waves and current, the situation could have been deadly.

This link has been shown recently on many websites and some have congratulated them for "having a go". Well we all started somewhere and have been in bad broaches. Stuff happens. In watching the video, there was more panic than rational thinking from the skipper and that is scary. That tells me that they urgently need to do a post mortem, so to speak and be honest with themselves about what should have happened. Through this process they will learn something and become safer fast sailers.

From personal experience last year: I was crewing on a J120 in a 135 mile overnight race: 8 miles from the finish and we are in first place by miles/hours in a hot fleet, setting a record elapsed time. It's midnight, steady 35knots and gusting 40 wind over tide, heading for a narrow channel towards the finish with a reef half a mile to starboard.
We are on port tack with the heavy 2.5oz chicken chute up, but it's still 1,000sqft of sail. We have all done this before on this boat and know its capabilites. We are screaming along completely in control at 17 knots with a crew that have at least 20 years of high level offshore racing experience. All are wearing harnesses attached to jack lines and self inflating PFD's. We hit an eddy in the strong current, the helmsman loses it; the boat rounds up in seconds; we are laid flat with the mast in the water, 2 crew over the side being dragged along submerged. The spinnaker trimmer lets the sheet go completely as opposed to a rapid ease. Now we have an override on the sheet winch. We are still laid flat in big waves and howling wind and you have to scream to be heard. My reflex: I tripped the tack line, but meanwhile someone on the lee side partially submerged that couldn't hear the "tack tripped" cuts the halyard and sheet. two other crew are preoccupied getting the other two back aboard. The boat comes up leaving $11,000 of gear on the reef and off we go at 14 knots almost dead down wind. The skipper immediately calls for a jib, not realizing that the well tied down #3 on the foredeck was over the side during the broach full of water. As we slammed hard at 17 knots, the drag on the #3 pulled the pulpit off the bow. We have 5 miles to go to the finish and limp in still doing 10 to 12 knots on a beam reach.
What should have happened?
Hmmm.....it's close to 40 knots, midnight, wind over tide...big waves, narrow channel with a 4knot ebb, miles in the lead....but an excellent crew that had won every offshore race in the area the previous year..... the skipper should have called a timeoout and a chute douse. Killing ourselves over a pickle dish, even a record pickle dish is not what we all do this for.
What did we do? we had a very frank post mortem in gruesome detail for weeks to make sure that the next time we wipe out, the images of what HAS to be done better becomes embedded in our reflex. have we wiped out since?...you bet but things went a whole lot better. A few months later, we had another distance race.... gusting 40 knots...chicken chute up...daylight...totally in control...gybed as we surfed off a wave at 20 knots....trimmed and took off again....the stuff that dreams are made of (when it's been practiced and practiced and practiced...and discussed.....and discussed..)

Edited by - on

dontluff
Deckhand

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Canada
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Response Posted - 11/14/2006 : 20:29:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Duane Wolff
 That's the standard setup. I really don't think double sheets and guys in heavy weather are going to provide any additional advantage on a boat this size Therefore I think everything you have is looking good. I'm guessing the twing/tweakers and the pole up/down are in a spot where they can be adjusted as needed?

dw
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I agree that in typical races with a good crew, double sheets and guys and an inshore race are overkill. To end-for-end in heavy air, the helmsman HAS to be on their game along with the trimmer to keep the chute trapped down and flying through the gybe otherwise the poor old foredeck person doesn't have a hope in hell in getting the pole over and on the mast again. The good thing about using double sheets and guys in 20+ knots (even if it sounds wimpy or excessive for a 25ft boat), is that the poor old foredeck person has a chance of getting prepped on the new gybe and the pole rapidly attached without any load on the new guy. Bottom line this means a greater chance of executing the gybe safely, in control and keeping the boat going fast. Personally, I would prefer to execute a procedure that has a consistent chance of success in these conditions, than run risk of losing it. Ask any foredeck crew what they would prefer to do to give themselves a chance of doing it in control and not blowing it for the whole crew.

Edited by - on

dontluff
Deckhand

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Canada
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Response Posted - 11/14/2006 : 20:48:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by existentialsailor
 Tim,
Got any recomendations for improving this set up?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Looks good and quick for gybing. In light to medium air venues having the pole downhaul run back to a block at the mast base certainly means less to do during the gybe since it has the same/similar geometry as a vang on the main boom. i.e. no adjustment necessary

However just like a vang, in heavier air, the loads will increase significantly. If the pit crew can't adjust it easily, then a "floating" block can be set between the turning block at the mast and the cockpit cleat to double the purchase. This would work easily.

In the case of a spin pole, beam reaching with both the guy pulling back on the pole, and the downhaul pulling back towards the mast, there's an increase in the compression on the pole.

I would set up for both sets of conditions by using a small snatch turning block (or block with a snap shackle) at the mast that could be moved forward to the mid-foredeck position when the conditions warrant it, or if there is concern about excessive compression on the pole.

Edited by - on

Champipple
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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2006 : 21:31:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">1. Having 6 people aboard in these conditions is asking for trouble. In fact 6 people on board a Capri 25 in any conditions is not a good idea. People will be tripping over each other. Isn't there a crew limitation in the class, particularly at a National regatta??<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I believe there are class rules, however this event is a WYC event. They have been invited to join this group a number of times. The class rules we adopted last year were a near copy of the ones they drafted. So I guess it is there call on their race. Officially speaking, when catalina yachts gave the mainsheet permission to include the Capri 25's in our group they sanctioned us as the true National/International group for the Capri 25's...
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">2. having 6 people aboard that have evidently no experience in flying a chute or helming the boat in these conditions is asking for trouble <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My sentiments exactly

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">4. They had a person overboard and if it wasn't for another boater, could have lost them. If they had been on the ocean or San Francisco Bay with big waves and current, the situation could have been deadly.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I think it was a committee boat...not that it matters. You mentioned SF Bay or the Ocean. I noticed that in 25 kts there was little wave action on that body of water. If that were to happen on the great lakes you would have seen 8-10 footers 4 to 5 seconds apart. Without a chase boat, that person probably wouldn't have been picked up.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2006 : 22:50:31

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Duane Wolff
 ...If that were to happen on the great lakes you would have seen 8-10 footers 4 to 5 seconds apart. Without a chase boat, that person probably wouldn't have been picked up.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Exactly my reaction, based on my sailing venue. Nobody I saw even watched the MOB--maybe they already knew he was being picked up. Keeping cool is one thing, but they appeared to be way over their heads with that chute in those conditions. I guess I wasn't born to be a racer.

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