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Lake Erie Water Level Displacement

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/29/2006 : 21:09:33

Looks like were in for a nice little tide change going into the weekend...

[url="http://www.glerl.noaa.gov/res/glcfs/ewl1d.html"]Lake Erie Water Level Displacement[/url]

Don Lucier

North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 11/29/2006 : 21:46:05

LOL....some of these guys deal with bigger tide changes than that every 6 hours...

I'm not too worried about the impact this will have on my boat.

Edited by - Champipple on 11/30/2006 21:42:43

DanM
Captain

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256 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2006 : 06:14:35

Imagine a saucer nearly filled with water, sloshing as you tip it. Usually happens to Lake Erie a few times each season when the barometer dips or we have easterlies. It can do a lot of damage to the shoreline and waterfront properties.
At our summer place on the eastern Canadian shore, where the beach slopes gently, our keel was grinding on the bottom one day last August where the depth is usually 7.5 ft. Many boats moored closer inshore were on their sides. I'm waiting for an estimate on the fibreglass repair from my winter marina.
See www.buffalocanoeclub.com

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2006 : 06:34:02

Although I'm safely high and dry, those boats that are still in the water here on the western shore will probably be laying on their sides come Saturday.

These are pics from another low tide...

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2006 : 08:01:38

Look closely at the gunwale of that big girl with the green sail cover--CRUNCH. Lucky she didn't catch a shroud or mast on a piling. Tides rise and fall 6.5-9.5' where I used to live on Long Island Sound, depending on the moon. In some weather conditions, it'd be over 12', and that's twice a day. Lots of boats sitting in the mud.

You Lake St. Claire guys might be able to walk to Canada!

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 11/30/2006 08:05:44

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Response Posted - 11/30/2006 : 09:33:13

On inland lakes like the Great Lakes, the tides referred to are called seche. It is basically a diplacement of what from one part of the lake to another due to high winds and or intense drop in barometric pressure. One of the most intense instances of this phenomina in our area of lake Superior occurred in the 60's when there was a seche surge of over 6 feet. Some reports wre as high as 10 feet.

More recently, I experienced one at our club's marina which is in a small bay with access to a larger lake via a narrow channel. I was standing on a dock with one foot in a small boat. The dock is normally about 1 foot above the water surface. While standing their I noticed my foot getting wet and the boat rising. The water was actualy flowing over the dock. When I looked out to the channel, the markers were flat on their side waving violently in the current flowing in. After some seconds the water receded as quickly as it rose but the event reoccurred twice in the next fifteen minutes as the front passed through the area. Essentially the bay acted like a water barometer as the low passed through. A very interesting phenomina to say the least.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2006 : 10:07:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by aeckhart
 ...I was standing on a dock with one foot in a small boat.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Al... We saw you in the video that was posted last week.

http://luizmajo.multiply.com/video/item/100

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 11/30/2006 10:14:58

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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1709 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2006 : 16:17:32

Dave,

Really! Which post and by whom? I guess I missed it.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2006 : 16:43:56

Al--it was the link I put in the post above. You're all over it!

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2006 : 17:47:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by aeckhart
 On inland lakes like the Great Lakes, the tides referred to are called seche...One of the most intense instances of this phenomena in our area of lake Superior occurred in the 60's when there was a seche surge of over 6 feet. Some reports were as high as 10 feet.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

As this Wikipedia article on [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seiche"]seiche's[/url] mentions, Lake Erie is particularly prone to this phenomena with differentials of up to 16ft.

A weather front towards the end of this past season left my boat sitting with only about a foot of water under it. Fortunately, the bottom is quite soft and my fin keel sunk deep into the muck which kept the boat standing upright.

Edited by - dlucier on 11/30/2006 17:53:06

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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1709 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2006 : 21:04:59

Dave,

I'm not quite sure how to take that. Is it a bad joke? If so I am not very amused. I can't imagine what I wrote that would warrant such responce. Or am I just a little too sensative?

Edited by - aeckhart on 11/30/2006 21:07:35

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2006 : 21:49:18

We don't call it seche around here, just plain old storm surge. If the wind hits the correct 15 degree window the fetch can get upwards of 100 miles. It can make for some pretty big depth swings as Don's noted above.

Someone asked me at the 06 Nationals why the club was replacing old fixed docks with new fixed docks when new floaters existed now that can handle tide changes. The problem is they can handle the tide, but they don't make anything a quarter mile long that can handle the surge...

Al I think the quote in Dave's post of your mentionining I had one foot on the dock and one on the boat is what spurred Dave's posting of that video.

Edited by - on

glivs
Admiral

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USA
836 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2006 : 10:53:51

Interesting Don. Here on Lake Champlain our seiches are largely internal. As fronts pass through in the summer the thermocline rises and falls as much as 10m in the open lake, but the surface displacement is never more than a few cm.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2006 : 12:00:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by aeckhart
 Dave,

I'm not quite sure how to take that. Is it a bad joke? If so I am not very amused. I can't imagine what I wrote that would warrant such responce. Or am I just a little too sensative?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
"...standing on a dock with one foot in a small boat..."

Never mind--sorry.

I'll go to my room now... (Sheesh!)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 12/01/2006 12:06:33

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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1709 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2006 : 13:09:40

Dave,

Guess I need to apologize......profusely. I didn't catch the irony

. My post really fit into the video perfectly. Anyway, I should have known better. I've been lurking around here for about 10 years and I think I've only seen someone slammed twice. One was for the beer keg mod a few weeks ago. I'll keep a more alert next time.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2006 : 13:46:08

I can come out now?

Guess these things happen when our boats are on the hard... I'll try to be more sensitive to the situation.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2006 : 21:52:46

Yikes! It looks like the water level displacement is going to be around 12ft.

[url="http://www.glerl.noaa.gov/res/glcfs/ewl1d.html"]Lake Erie Water Level Displacement[/url]

Anyone in Buffalo have water coming over the docks?

Edited by - dlucier on 12/01/2006 21:53:42

DanM
Captain

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USA
256 Posts

Response Posted - 12/03/2006 : 15:35:54

A photo in Saturday's newspaper showed a Suburban in the parking lot of the Erie Basin Marina with water up to its bumpers. I'd guess the parking lot is 8 ft above normal water level. That's behind two breakwalls. Maybe Bob Sirikis could confirm that. I think our docks are all removed by 12/1.

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DanM
Captain

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USA
256 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2006 : 06:02:11

Although it's getting to be an old thread, thought I'd try for a capture of that marina photo.
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20061202/1046374.asp

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2006 : 17:57:37

Wow, 15ft foot waves out on the lake!

Thanks for the link, Dan.

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