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KD4AO
Navigator

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USA
202 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/14/2006 :  14:12:27  Show Profile
I will be getting my (new to me) '03 C250WK in mid January. I am wondering what instruments are being used by most folks, my boat has none. I am thinking of RayMarine ST40 series, Bidata, Wind, Compass and ST1000 Tiller Pilot. Any comments will be appreciated. Thanks. Bob

Bob Townsend

Past C250 Chief Measurer
Past owner of:
C250WK #704
Honda 9.9

Punta Gorda, Fl.


Have a Great Sail!

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welshoff
Captain

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USA
253 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2006 :  15:07:33  Show Profile
I have a Raymarine ST40 depth sounder w/thru hull transducer. A Magellan Meridian Marine hand held GPS. Autopilot is a Simrad WP30 (wheel pilot) with a binnacle mounted compass at helm.

Nothing fancy here.

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2006 :  16:08:35  Show Profile  Visit Arlyn Stewart's Homepage
Hi Bob, Welcome to the forum.

Each chooses what is needed for the kind of sailing anticipated. One example of this is if a boat will be anchored a great deal during coastal cruising, a fish finder sounder makes good sense because it gives a look at the bottom structure to check out the anchoring field. If it shows weeds often not seen from the surface, moving on is easy compared to discovering the weeds from an attempted anchoring.

Coastal cruising also requires a gps so a fish sounder/gps package is a reasonable way to go. A gps gives reasonably accurate speed without any of the fouling hassle of a paddled speed sensor.

These units also mount well on swing out mounts so no bulk head cutting is involved. Most are happy with a shoot through the hull sensor for depth.

My practice over the years is to write down the goals and then find solutions to those goals.

The above fish finder/sounder works very well for me, but for a boat kept in a slip that sails a lake... There is no need for gps or a fish finder bottom structure sounder. A simply bi-data makes a better choice though not necessarily less expensive.

As to a wind instrument... they are the most maintenance intensive and costly and IMHO the least needed so one wouldn't be on the top of my list... but that is just me. I've sailed with them several times and paid them little attention and I've never in a lot of cruising ever felt I needed one. I do have a cheap hand held wind strength meter however, that doubles to serve the model airplane flying field.

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frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2006 :  19:54:10  Show Profile
I would agree with Aryln on the fishfinder GPS combo using the transducer mounted inside the hull, no holes.
These were not available when I purchase my new boat or I would have gone that way. I have the Navman depth and speed systems with thru hulls mounted in the v-berth. Since I do not race much anymore I don't use the speed unit much except for the log part. My racing nowdays are confinded to the weekly beer can races and the once a year 38.5 nm river race known as the "The Mug Race".
The question as Aryln said, is what type of sailing are you going to do, Race or cruise? The type will give you the answer.

Edited by - frog0911 on 12/16/2006 17:19:57
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KD4AO
Navigator

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USA
202 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2006 :  10:42:25  Show Profile
Thanks for the comments. I will be mostly daysailing in Charlotte Harbor. I don't actually need wind instruments or speed, I was thinking in terms of future resale. I like your idea of no holes so maybe the GPS/FF is a good one. My boat is a wing keel so where is a suggested location for the glued in transducer? Then a windex on the mast and maybe a tiller pilot on I'm good to go as they say. Bob

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2006 :  14:10:16  Show Profile
My 250 WK has a specific spot in the v-berth for the transducer. Mine (speed and depth) use through hulls. I don't think you need be overly concerned about a couple of holes through the hull. Nearly all boats have them and yours wouldn't be connected to hoses which is where the failure point really is. A well installed speed and depth sounder is not a threat to your C250 IMHO.

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aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 12/16/2006 :  07:52:38  Show Profile  Visit aeckhart's Homepage
I agree with Randy. I installed depth and speed transducers through my new 1988 C25 TR/WK hull and have not experienced any leak problems. Of course, installing through the hull is a little more work and there is a pucker factor - a 2" hole in the bottom of a boat is a little scarey. However, if you can get a signal through the selected location in the hull, I would go without drilling. I did it in my wife's Bayliner with favorable results.

As far as location, I see no reason to have a depth sounder if it is not as close to the bow of the boat as possible. Who wants to know how deep the water is <b>after</b> you're stuck on the bottom? On my boat its under the v-berth. There are trade-offs in this location however. On most boats this is the thickest part of the hull which may retard transducer signal unless the transducer is installed through the hull. This is where the v-shape of the hull forms. You may have trouble finding a totally flat spot to install the tranducer through the hull, which may cause gaps in the seal of the transducer. A small amount of grinding and liberal amounts of caulking have solved the problem on my boat. Again, the pucker and work factors may disuade you from installing through the hull.

This is what worked for me 17 years ago. I might do it differently today however, the overriding factor would be how far forward I could get the transducer and still get a good depth reading. Yor best bet is to run the depth sounder while moving the transducer around in the hull as far foward as you can get, working back. If you can get a good signal forward of the wing keel, my advice is to install without drilling. If you can't, then for safety sake, drill the hole and install the transducer.

My two cents.

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Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 12/16/2006 :  09:22:37  Show Profile
Bob,
I have a [url="http://www.bellsouthpwp2.net/t/o/tompotter/my%20web/images/Chartplotter.jpg"]Lowrance 68C[/url] which is a Fish Finder/Color GPS mapping unit combo. I used some teak to build a [url="http://bellsouthpwp2.net/t/o/tompotter/Our%20New%20Catalina%20250/Compass.jpg"]swing arm[/url] to mount the unit on. The 68C came with a transom mount type of transducer. I mounted the transducer in the v-berth, forward the wing keel in a void under the water tank. There's about a 3 inch area under the tank that works great to mount the transducer. I picked up a "new" toilet bowl wax ring from the local hardware store, balled it up and pressed the transducer in the wax. Placed the wax and transducer in the area I cleaned and pressed it to the hull pretty good. I worked out any air pockets best I could. Its been there now for going on three years, no holes to drill, no epoxy to mix and no problems. If ever I want to replace it for any reason, just peel it up.

You can also see my VHF Icom M302 with DSC in the link above. I mounted the VHF flush in the bulkhead, I wanted to be able to hear it from the cockpit and have easy access to it too. One of the problems I ran into is the Lowrance 68C does not have a wire to connect the VHF for the DSC to work properly. So I hooked up the DSC function of the VHF to my back up handheld Garmin 12, the DSC works like a champ now.

You definitely will want a tiller pilot, IMHO a must for the 250. I use a Simrad TP-10, its the cheaper of tiller pilots, it don't have all the bells and whistles that comes with the ST1000, but it don't have the problems that the ST1000 has either. I recommend you do a little research on your own before you buy the tiller pilot. I went with the cheaper Simrad and have been very happy with it. The tack feature works great, allows me to work the sails while the pilot works the tiller.

Welcome to the forum, good luck with your boat plans and we look forward to hearing back from you.


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britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 12/16/2006 :  10:51:26  Show Profile  Visit britinusa's Homepage
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Who wants to know how deep the water is after you're stuck on the bottom?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Recently we were sailing in a new to us area. We had the GPS so were able to see the depths ahead (assuming the chartplotter data was correct) However, several times in a narrow channel we could see the depth finder showing a shallowing out where the chartplotter indicated we should be ok. We were able to tack quickly to avoid the shallows. Our sailing buddy without the chartplotter was not so lucky and grounded several times. So I would now say that a depth sounder is a must have and that you have to be very shy of shallows without one. (Even with a swing keel like JD.)

Paul.

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KD4AO
Navigator

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USA
202 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2006 :  08:51:31  Show Profile
tompotter, I like what you did to mount the GPS, the swing arm is a great idea. I wasn't even aware of the Simrad Tiler Pilot, if its tack feature works great like you say, that is all I will need. I had the ST1000 on my C27 and tack was about all I used. I thought it was difficult to learn how to use any other features and I never had time to fool with it using the owners manual. Thans to all for your replies. Bob

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