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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Rudder Failure

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Steve
1st Mate

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USA
87 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/26/2002 : 11:48:55

I was out sailing late yesterday afternoon when my rudder broke. At the lower pintle, the bolts pulled through the fiberglass. It was still connected at the top, but was flopping around so bad I disconnected it at the top pintle and drug the whole tiller/rudder assembly on board.

Of course, I was 5 miles from shore, wind blowing 15-18 knots, waves pounding away and suddenly I don't have a rudder. One of these what the heck do I do now situations.

Anyway, we made it back so now I've got to either repair or replace the rudder. I've seen several posts about a "balanced rudder" - what exactly is this? Are there patterns available so that I can fabricate one myself, or is this something I should order from Catalina direct?

Thanks,
Steve
87 TR WK (no rudder)

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2002 : 12:12:27

Steve,
Please share your decision making process with us. I'm pondering this decision - but before (hopefully) my rudder breaks!

Steve Madsen
#2428
OJ (Ode to Joy)

Edited by - on

cathluk
Admiral

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USA
513 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2002 : 13:51:43

The balanced rudder everyone is talking about is for the C250 although there may be a similar issue with the C25.

I'd be interested in hearing how you made it back. We've briefly pondered the broken rudder issue (thought about it while putting on our new rudder this winter) & the best we came up with was using a plywood cover from our storage area and/or steering with the outboard.

Cathy
"Blown Away"
'97 C250WK #253

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1595 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2002 : 14:01:18

Here is a link to a very good drawing of the ballanced rudder.
http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/brudder3.gif you will notice at the lower forward section the rudder protrudes forward. This aspect causes the forward or leading edge of the rudder to offset or counter balance the forces being applied on the trailing edge thus giving you the feel of a ballanced rudder. This end result is it takes a lot less force to move the tiller when sailing.

Doug&Ruth
Wind Lass
Tacoma Wa.

Edited by - on

jm
Captain

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Canada
290 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2002 : 14:17:38

Steve !

Of course, I was 5 miles from shore, wind blowing 15-18 knots, waves pounding away and suddenly I don't have a rudder. One of these what the heck do I do now situations.

I'd like to know what the heck you did in this situation ?

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2002 : 14:41:45

"I've seen several posts about a "balanced rudder" - what exactly is this? Are there patterns available so that I can fabricate one myself, or is this something I should order from Catalina direct?" - Steve

Yes, you can build one, but from what I've read you are better off buying one from Catalina or Catalina Direct due to both the cost and labor involved. The following quote is from an earlier rudder topic from someone who was building a balanced rudder.

"I am building a mold for a new rudder right now and I should have less than $150 in the mold. I figure another $200 in material for the rudder. This doesn't take into account the 80 or so hours I'll have in it but according to my boss, my time isn't worth much anyway."

I asked the person who was building this rudder, if it was worth the time and effort to save a few dollars, he responded,

"In a word NO, definately not worth the trouble to make your own rudder. I'm only doing this because I am building a windvane steering and I need to make a few design changes to the rudder to improve the response of the windvane."

When I called CD a few months ago, I asked what the prices were for the balanced rudders and they were $428.00 without pintles and $443.00 with.

Don Lucier, North Star
C25 SR/FK

Edited by - on

jellyfish
Navigator

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USA
171 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2002 : 16:20:02

I got a new balanced rudder for our 87 C25 last year and love it! it was well worth the money. Im assuming you got back in by steering with the motor? it is a real pain, but can be done.

Edited by - on

Steve
1st Mate

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USA
87 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2002 : 17:42:51

As soon as the rudder broke, we dropped the sails and tried to stabilize the rudder, but there was no way so I had to remove it. We were able to make about 3 knots with the outboard, so it took longer but we made it. It got rougher as we got closer to shore, at about a mile out I was really having trouble keeping the prop in the water and the motor would rev way up when the prop came close to the surface. So close, but yet so far and by then it was dark.

I figured if it got any worse the prudent thing to do would be to drop the storm anchor, and wait for the conditions to improve enough to safely motor in.

But, we made it. Got back to the clubhouse about 9:30, had a cold beer and my first cigarette in about a year.

Steve

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2002 : 18:29:31

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
...and my first cigarette in about a year.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Steve, Steve... Nothing's THAT bad!

Don: I should probably call Cat Direct and get them to give me some of my money back! The price was significantly higher a year ago.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2002 : 19:30:17

Lost a rudder. Small potatoes considering loosing a keel or mast. My wife and I lost a mast seven years ago while attempting to lower it to pass under a bridge. All was well untill the mast was 3/4 down. I was at the stern and wife was on the bow and cabin top area. We had a tangle and she was suporting the mast. She just couldn't quite hold it and was yelling for me to help. I couldn't let go of the lines I had to lower it . I told her to let go as she was by far more important than the mast. It went over the side with a crash and it was all quite dramatic. We had a good laugh together and then hauled it out by the shrouds. Laying it on the cabin top we motored to Olympia 6 hours away. I picked up the car, went to the hardware store and bought what I needed to make the repairs. I replaced the tabernacle and hadware put the mast back up the next mourning and we finished out our weeks trip. No big deal. It was either quit and ruin the vacation or deal with the adventure. I chose to deal with it. Each year I have learned more. Since then I have delt with whirl pools, extreem tides, grounding, and last year the pounding of a life time in high wind and rough seas. Its all good some is just better than others. Its called attitude.

Doug&Ruth
Wind Lass
Tacoma Wa.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2002 : 19:44:27

"Don: I should probably call Cat Direct and get them to give me some of my money back! The price was significantly higher a year ago." - Dave

When CD quoted those prices to me they also mentioned that they had recently lowered their prices for the rudder.

Don Lucier, North Star
C25 SR/FK

Edited by - on

Steve
1st Mate

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USA
87 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2002 : 10:33:39

Dave,

Don't worry, I'm not going to start smoking again. I quit many years ago, there's no way I would ever start back. I do occasionally share one with an old friend, which Greg is. Maybe 3-4 cigarettes a year. And they are still as good as they ever were. That's the thing about smoking - I don't think you ever totally get over it - and that's why you should never start.

When I stopped smoking, I started running and now I compete in triathlons - not exactly conducive to smoking. I'll punish myself on my bike tomorrow.

Later,
Steve.

Edited by - on

Sidurian
1st Mate

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USA
27 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2002 : 16:13:01

More bad news for you - the new balanced rudder hangs lower than the swing keel by a couple of inches.....I got caught on something and the lower pindle of the NEW rudder tore off - luckily, like in your case, it was held on by the top part. Here's some cheap advice: if you DO decide to install the new balanced rudder, make absolutely sure that you have the beefed up version of the hardware installed on the stern. On my boat I used sturdier parts for both the top and bottom - the top was fairly inaccessible, so we cut a small hole from the inside of transom in order to install a backing place as well. Good luck....it was quite an experience for us - we also started taking on water in the cabin - the rudder ripped out part of the bottom of the stern.

There's always something!

Edited by - on

Steve
1st Mate

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USA
87 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2002 : 16:26:48

I've got my old rudder in my garage now, and the dimensions for the new one. I'll compare them tonight. If it's a couple of inches, I should be OK since I have a wing keel.

Steve

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