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triley
Captain

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USA
251 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/26/2002 : 12:20:12

Have begun some club racing with my new Catalina 25 sk standard rig. We were portsmouth rated 94.4 by our club, and ended up beating the pants off S2 6.9's, Hunter 260's and Balboa 26 in our first set of races two eeks ago. Winds were 8-12 that week We have kept this up this week with good, steady 10-15 winds. We beat the other boats on the upwind legs and they would spurt ahead with spinnakers on downwind legs. We only carry a Mylar 155 jenny, and use it to advantage. No spinnaker. What's up? I am not that good, though the knotmeter is a real help in trimming correctly. I thought Catalinas were sloer than that.

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John Mason
Admiral

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USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2002 : 12:48:01

Hey, don't question success<img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>, but if you keep winning so handily the other skippers may request a re-rating<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>.

John Mason - Ali Paroosa
1982 - FK/SR #3290

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2002 : 13:27:47

Congratulations! Do you pole-out yr 155? And how tight (or loose) do you carry your rig?
Derek

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2002 : 13:53:45

My first guess is that you are a much better sailor than you give yourself credit for being. Secondly, your bottom and keel are probably smooth, and in good condition for racing. Thirdly, the longer you own your C-25, the more impressed you will be with her performance. For a 25 foot boat, she has a long waterline, and, despite her awkward-to-use transom-mounted mainsheet and traveller, she can beat to windward with the best. The C-25 carries a huge spinnaker, if you want to hold your own on the downwind leg, but, as you have found out, you don't need it to beat the others.

Don't you just love happy surprises!

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

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Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2002 : 10:29:45

Yeah, I am really interested in the rig tension answer. I just got CREAMED to weather last weekend in 15 to 20 knots. We did okay downwind with asymmetric chute, but couldn't point well, nor find boatspeed to weather. Granted, I was not well prepared. Just splashed the day before and the rig was not well tuned, but I left it fairly slack as the tech tips suggested. Did much better last season with a very Firm tune job. I did screw up in reefing the main and going to the 110, perhaps, but gusts had us overpowered otherwise. The other boats didn't go to smaller headsails and just pinched in the puffs. We didn't and had to tack too often. I will learn.....eventually! Maybe I should take up chess for competition....

Gary B. on Encore! #685

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Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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769 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2002 : 10:45:11

Hey Gary,

I've never completely "bought into" the soft rig tension deal....maybe because I don't have an adjustable backstay. The rig on Snickerdoodle is tight, and we work to windward pretty darned well.

If you race in very many 15 to 20 days, you might consider a 135% genny. It'll balance really nicely with a reefed main or even a main with only a flattening reef.

If you really need to go down to a working jib size, consider getting a 95% to 100% Blade jib. The Blade has a short foot, but a full hoist luff (like a 150). You get great upwind lift even though the jib sail area is reduced. I love mine!!

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5902 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2002 : 12:04:15

Gary,

As Bill says, if you don't have an adjustable backstay, then all your shrouds and stays should be adjusted snugly (but not bar tight).

If you have an adjustable backstay, then your headstay should be very slack (when all tension is released from the backstay adjuster), and your aft lowers should be slightly slack, so that they will allow the mast to bend forward when the backstay adjuster is tensioned. The rest of your shrouds and stays should be snug. When full tension is applied to the backstay adjuster, and the midsection of the mast bends forward, the aft lowers should draw up snug, with no slack. In that way, the aft lowers prevent your mast from bending too far forward.

When you are beating to windward in moderate to strong winds, you should tension the backstay adjuster. Doing so will tighten your headstay, flattening the jib. When the mast bends, it will pull the pocket in the mainsail forward and flatten the mainsail. When you fall off the wind, release the tension on the backstay adjuster, and it will put slack in the headstay, making the jib fuller, and it will straighten the mast, making the mainsail fuller.

The backstay adjuster allows you to quickly and easily adjust your rig, while underway, so that it works optimally when going to windward and downwind.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

Edited by - Steve Milby on 06/27/2002 12:10:01

Edited by - on

triley
Captain

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USA
251 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2002 : 16:17:44

In terms of shroud tension, the aft lowers are snug but not tight. I noticed that the leeward aft lower loosens considerably when the backstay is taut.

At the suggestion of the former owner I am sailing with the main loose footed. He had a wonderful flattening system with a 6:1 purchase on the cunningham and an inboom outhaul to create a flattening reef while we are pointing. Iused the big mylar jenny for pointing and she did well. I actually had the genoa sheets about a third of the way back up wind, and maybe should have had them forward a little.

It was great! I love this boat!

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2002 : 19:02:22

triley,

I hate to suggest changes to a guy who mopping up the lake with his boat, but it sounds like your rig needs some adjustment. The only thing I can think of that could cause an aft lower to loosen when the backstay is tensioned is if the forward lowers are too loose. If the forward lowers are too loose, then when you apply tension to the backstay, it will pull on the mast. The looseness in the forward lowers will allow the mast to tilt aft slightly, and that will, in turn, cause the aft lowers to slacken.

We had a lengthy discussion of rig tuning awhile ago. It can be found at http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=884, which is a hyperlink. It would be helpful to read it and re-tune your rig accordingly. If your boat is this fast when your rig is out of adjustment, just think how fast it will be when the rig is tuned.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2002 : 21:28:06

On the other hand, triley, there is the philosophy that says "if it ain't broke don't fix it".<img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle> I'm the proponent of a VERY loose rig (as you will see if you click on Steve's link.)
Derek on "This Side Up" TRFK

Edited by - on

triley
Captain

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USA
251 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2002 : 16:08:46

This debate about rig is like the one about loose or taut rigs in the 470's I used to sail. The En Zed guys always sailed with a really soft rig, while alot of Americans would have broken the boat in two if they tautened up anymore. I sailed fairly taut there, but was always in the middle of the fleet.

I am going to try to tune her a little better this weekend and see how it works. I think I will mark my turnbuckles, though, with magic makrer to be able to put them back where they are. There go a few more cotter pins!

What about the loose footed main? Any debate here?

Tom

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2002 : 12:38:18

Triley, don't listen to Derrick when he tells you not to tune your rig. He's afraid you will get to be so fast that he won't be able to beat you.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Incidentally, Derrick, in that previous string on rig tuning I said I was going to tune my rig the way I usually do, but loosen my headstay and aft lowers as you suggested. I did it, and found that, for the first time, the backstay adjuster is working the way it is supposed to. Since I was late to splash this Spring, I missed the strong early winds, and haven't had a good opportunity to try it going to windward in a decent blow, but my boat is clearly faster in light air and off the wind. I don't have any doubt it will also be faster going to windward. Thanks for your suggestions.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2002 : 13:06:54

Its so cool to read all the posts about rig and what does what. I dont race but still like to know what might make my boat go a bit faster. I use my GPS and tweek the sails to see what works. If something makes me go a little faster I remember it. But honestly the best use I have found for my split back stay is to hold my crab ring. LOL

Doug&Ruth
Wind Lass
Tacoma Wa.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2002 : 11:55:36

Steve - thanks for your comments! They mean a lot coming from another hard-core racer! I'm just sorry we won't get to duke it out in Michigan...<img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>
Derek

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triley
Captain

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USA
251 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2002 : 15:53:49

Wow. The website is great, the advice is great. Laast Sunday, though, I had my comeuppance. Had a new crew, and chose the big spinnaker since the wind had come west and abated to about 15. Looked good and we were doing well until we got the blue flag. Bang, the wind pipes up to between 20-25, a chop builds over the fetch from shore and I am really overpowered. Figure I can flatten, pull the backstay adjuster down tight, and make up for the added wetted surface upwind with some really good reaches. No such luck! My crew is exhausted getting the big one in, one goes into hypoglycemic shocjk that demands the only sugar aboard. Three beers later, he is barfing and shaking and I am dead last over the line at the finish. We got him ashore quickly, so this week it is a dead last and two DNS's. so much for the continuing saga.

But that first week felt so good! <img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2002 : 17:04:11

triley "into each life some rain must fall..."
When I started racing I was so often DFL that the race committee would radio me and request that we bring in the last mark with us!<img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>
Derek

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