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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Cruising World - January - Catalina C25 & C309

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Russ.Johnson
Commodore

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USA
855 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/26/2006 : 22:27:00

The January issue of Cruising World has the Catalina 309 as
"Best Small Cruiser" and "Domestic-made, Boat-of-the-Year"
There is a nice article starting on page-67.

There's also an article about a Catalina-25 galley refit.
In the Hands-On-Sailor section, page-94.

It's good to see some Catalina's in the magazines.
For the past few years I've read a lot more about Hunter's than Catalina's

Russ Johnson
2005 C250WB Hull 793

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5906 Posts

Response Posted - 12/27/2006 : 07:00:18

Until about the late 1980's, Catalina was never mentioned in the sailing magazines, because Catalina never bought advertising in them. Frank Butler's reasoning was that, if Catalina represented a good value, the boats would sell by word of mouth. Nevertheless, in order to counter the growing popularity of Catalinas, their competitors spread false rumors, alleging that the boats were put together cheaply with pop rivets and chopper guns. During that period, Morgan Yachts bought a lot of advertising, and, when Catalina bought Morgan Yachts, they kept advertising in the budget, but they started advertising Catalinas as well as Morgans.

It's nice to finally see complimentary articles about Catalinas, especially in view of the boat's popularity.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/27/2006 : 09:06:56

Yup... I love reading those "reviews" of Hunters, pointing out that the "innovative B&R rig eliminates the need for a backstay..."

Mmmmmm hmmmmm.... Did I tell ya the one about the Hunter backing out of its slip?....

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 12/27/2006 09:12:53

Bubba
Admiral

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USA
542 Posts

Response Posted - 12/27/2006 : 21:42:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Did I tell ya the one about the Hunter backing out of its slip?.... <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Must've missed that one Dave. C'mon, tell us a Hunter story.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/27/2006 : 22:40:51

Well, it's a repeat, so I'll do the short version... A Hunter 240 is creeping backward out of a slip, tips just a bit and catches a shroud on a piling, and POP! The mast buckles in half and ends up on the foredeck. I helped the guy untangle it... A backstay probably would've helped, but so would a mast extrusion a tad heavier than a Coors can! "...eliminates the need for a backstay", huh?

Edited by - on

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2006 : 05:10:00

Last Month's Sail Magazine also carried an extremely positive article on the 309 as well and reading past the fluff, the 309 looks to be a very nice boat.

It's the same with all the mags; if you don't advertise, they don't seem to have any incentive to give your boats any pages.

Back in the day, Frank Butler depended on word of mouth and it worked, Catalina was the top manufacturer in the U.S. In fact, in order to be a Catalina dealer you had to carry at least one other comparably priced line like Newport or Hunter.

The reasoning was that the buyer would compare and choose Catalina, which they did more often than not.

The money saved on advertising went into the boats, kept the price competitive, and helped make them a better value.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2006 : 06:49:44

when we bought JD, the two major features that made it possible were $$$$$ & draft as we planned on sailing mostly in south florida, the keys, Biscayne bay but with dreams of getting elsewhere. The C250 was affordable (but then came the new truck to tow it.) and the swing keel made it feasable for sailing down here.

Looking at the C309, the cost of the boat and the truck is still 30% less than the C309 but you do get a whole lot more boat. As you can tell, I didn't play and win the lottery last night

Now, if the C255 had the headroom of the 309, the trailerability of the C250 then I might look at an upgrade. Or maybe just put a cabin top extension in place

Paul

Edited by - on

mhartong
Navigator

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USA
152 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2006 : 07:22:55

Something is seriously wrong with the reviewrs when they consider a 30 foot, $100,000 boat "entry level" and "affordable". With 20% down, the monthly pyments on a 15 year,7.5% note are around $750. Add in monthly slip fees ($200) per month, insurance ($50),and personnel property tax ($100) and we're talking in the neighborhood of $1100 per month/$13,000 per year.

I need a new job or a a lottery win.

Edited by - on

Chris Z
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2006 : 07:41:17

I guess i would have to agree. Here is my costs for my new (to me) C-25.
Monthly Payment: 178.50 (4 years)
Insurance: $200.00 (yearly)
Mooring: $150.00 (5 months)
I guess someone would have to be a very good saleman to convince me that the boat and sailing would be that much more improved!!!
I think the difference leaves a lot of money to use for upgrades!

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2006 : 08:08:01

I just re-read the C25 article in CW. While it's nice that the boat is getting some press, I'm not sure that the upgrade was really worth all the attention. What did he do? He gave it a bath, replaced a dysfunctional hand pump and stuck in a cheap refrigerator. Admittedly, the stove is an upgrade AND he DID put a cutting board on the top step

!!!!!

Some of the upgrades I've read about in this forum are probably much more worthy of magazine space.

I imagine that if the 309 were really "entry level" this forum would not exist. But, fantasies are nice. I'm buyin' that lotto ticket.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2006 : 10:46:52

OK, you guys broke the cardinal rule of sailing - Never do the math. What would the Admirals do if they realized what our hobby really costs? Please promise that you'll never post financial info again.

Also, when I look at the boats in Puget Sound I realize that there are a lot of people who seem to be able to afford these "entry level" boats. Same thing with houses. Many of the new homes in my town are $700k+ and they sell. Where are these folks getting their money? Or are they mortgaged to the hilt? I like my C250 and having some extra to buy "bling" for it!!

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2006 : 11:04:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Until about the late 1980's, Catalina was never mentioned in the sailing magazines,...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"><blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">It's the same with all the mags; if you don't advertise, they don't seem to have any incentive to give your boats any pages.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">So far as ad-supported mags are concerned, if you don't advertise (with them), you don't exist!

Want a favorable review for your product (no matter how shoddy or over priced)? Buy a big ad. They'll probably ask if you'd like the ad and glowing review to run on facing pages, and remind you to submit a draft of the review with your check.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">...Frank Butler depended on word of mouth and it worked, Catalina was the top manufacturer in the U.S. In fact, in order to be a Catalina dealer you had to carry at least one other comparably priced line ...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">The success of Mr. Butler's word of mouth policy says more about his boats than any paid ad ever could. I think the multi-brand requirement was shrewd. That way the other brand's marketing budget serves to draw potential buyers onto your dealer's sales lot.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">A Hunter 240 is creeping backward out of a slip, tips just a bit and catches a shroud on a piling, and POP!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Now see, that was his first mistake. What ever gave him the idea a Hunter was designed for use beyond a yacht club slip?

Don't the Hunter ads emphasize their use as a floating patio for entertaining?
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">...when they consider a 30 foot, $100,000 boat "entry level" and "affordable".<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Well, maybe it was the most "entry level" and "affordable" boat with a full page ad in that issue! Besides, that's what the sales brochure said...

I agree. My idea of entry level is a Sunfish. Then enjoy climbing the staircase of sailboat ownership a few feet at a time, gaining experience with each type of boat, and learning exactly where your fun vs. $$$ comfort zone is.

-- Leon Sisson {cynical? me?}

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2006 : 11:28:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 ...I look at the boats in Puget Sound I realize that there are a lot of people who seem to be able to afford these "entry level" boats. Same thing with houses. Many of the new homes in my town are $700k+ and they sell. Where are these folks getting their money? Or are they mortgaged to the hilt? I like my C250 and having some extra to buy "bling" for it!!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Where I lived until two years ago, you'd have trouble finding 2-bedroom house as low as $700K, and young families are snapping up "starter homes" at $2 million and up--way up. Thousands of Wall Street bonuses will have six figures before the decimal this year--many will have more. I don't get it, but it's fun to look at their "entry level" Hinckleys, Eastbays, and such.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2006 : 11:52:04

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Leon Sisson
 ...My idea of entry level is a Sunfish.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
That's right where I "entered" (after I had built and sailed a Sailfish as a kid)... and that appears to be where I'm gonna end up! Sunfish, Laser, Beetle,... That to me is real sailing!

Edited by - on

mhartong
Navigator

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USA
152 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2006 : 12:35:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
I like my C250 and having some extra to buy "bling" for it!!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'll second that!!!!!

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