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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Radar for a C-25??

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redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/01/2007 : 10:39:58

I'm sure somebody has installed radar on a C-25. I assuming stern pole mount???

Also, are there units that will plug into a laptop somehow? I really don't want anouther screen in the cockpit. Basically, I am looking for a cheap way to get my wife some peace of mind during our fog runs.

Sten '82 SR/FK #3220, Swansea MA

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ClamBeach
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Response Posted - 01/01/2007 : 11:19:58

"I really don't want another screen in the cockpit."

So somebody's going to sit in the cabin and watch the display down there?
IMHO:Just mount the display below then. Less hassle than dealing with the laptop. Otherwise, for the laptop... here's what you're describing.

http://www.si-tex.com/html/radarpc.html

For a 'complete' setup... Furuno makes a nice little unit. $1100 plus whatever you do to mount it.http://www.thegpsstore.com/Detail-Furuno-1623-2-2-kw-Radar.asp

JRC also a small unit that comes in just under a grand.

http://www.northeastmarineelectronics.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=431

Edited by - ClamBeach on 01/01/2007 11:50:22

existentialsailor
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Response Posted - 01/01/2007 : 11:57:50

You're going to need to consider the power consumption of the radar unit. 36 Watts when running, 8 watts in standby for the 1623.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2007 : 14:06:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by existentialsailor
 You're going to need to consider the power consumption of the radar unit. 36 Watts when running, 8 watts in standby for the 1623.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Most fog runs are under power... An outboard putting out 6-12 amps should keep up easily (if the wiring is up to spec). On the C-25, the pole supported by the sternrail is probably your best option. How about a swing-out arm in the companionway for the display?

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 01/01/2007 14:07:35

redviking
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Response Posted - 01/01/2007 : 15:02:27

Excellent! Thanks CB! I have a swing out laptop mount left over from my old days as a road warrior using a gps and a laptop to find clients. TomTom took care of that these days. I agree, almost all of my fog runs are under power with no wind to speak of, so power should not be a problem. I already have a plotter, so buying a whole system seemed redundant. I also want a system I can take with me as I assume the next owner will not be as ambitious as we are.

Sten

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ClamBeach
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Response Posted - 01/01/2007 : 16:27:40

"I already have a plotter, so buying a whole system seemed redundant"

Redundant is good. Imagine yourself in a 'tight spot' and having your integrated display go out. Chartplotter/GPS/Radar all gone in the same moment.

Years ago I was out in the fog on the Pacific Ocean salmon fishing with an integrated depthsounder/LORAN when it crapped out. Since then, I've always had an independent backup system on board.

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redviking
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Response Posted - 01/01/2007 : 16:54:01

My wife complains that I have backups for my backups. I always have at least 2 GPS handhelds on board, one laptop with Maptech loaded and a Delorme external GPS, AND my magellan plotter! However, it still makes a lot of sense to plot on good ole fashion paper charts non the less just in case you find a dead spot or GW turns the skies off!

I've heard many a call to the coasties from a boater - usually a stinkpotter - who is lost in the fog and either doesn't know where they are or are circling a marker and trying to figure it out!

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2007 : 17:37:04

Yup--two things to have backups for: GPS and VHS. I carry an old Garmin 48 as the GPS backup, and my handheld VHS takes care of the other. The 48 isn't a chartplotter, but at least it shows where the bouys were about 10 years ago.

I've been on boats with radar overlaid on the GPS chart... Not sure that's all that much better, since it makes it a little harder to notice a radar target. I'm planning on a radar unit, and will probably start out with a separate monochrome display--mostly for cost, but partly because of simplicity of use. At this point, I like Furuno for quality, economical solutions. If the market makes me a wealthy retiree, I'll look at the big integrated systems.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 01/01/2007 17:40:37

britinusa
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Response Posted - 01/02/2007 : 15:32:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">GPS and VHS.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yup! have to have a spare VHS even an 8Track, BETA if your using those big boys too.

Paul.

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aeckhart
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Response Posted - 01/02/2007 : 15:37:46

I was motoring in a very thick Lake Superior fog two years ago and, during a few minutew of inattention, nearly ran my boat on an island. I was following coastal bottom contours, a chart, and my old Garmin GPS. I buddy of mine was keeping an eye on me with his radar and warned me out of danger. I was determined to add radar to my boat after that but decided that the antenna and other hardware was just too big for a C25. I also decided that I have enough to do sailing in limited visibilty situations without having to mess with radar. Instead I opted for a Magellon color chart plotter. I've been in fog twice since and sailed at night numerous times and have not regretted my decision. I get a clear picture of wear I am in relation to obstacles as well as the normal GPS readouts, at better than half the cost of a radar system. In my opinion you will get more use out of a chart plotter than radar, particularly if you start sailing solo. The only drawback to a chart plotter is that it can't tell you if other boats are in your proximity....which would be a ggod thing in a crowded sailing area.

Edited by - aeckhart on 01/02/2007 15:40:55

redviking
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Response Posted - 01/03/2007 : 18:41:20

Roger that Al! Imagine this scenario - and it really did happen.

Scenario - heavy fog in Narragansett Bay RI and 21:00 hrs. dark (not that it matters) - outbound East Passage from Fall River to Block Island run. Nearing the Newport Bridge we hear sécurité calls from an inbound freighter. I acknowledge the threat and radio the freighter, they are moving at 14 knots and clearing the bay entrance. My beloved plotter shows me nearing the bridge. My plan - run the middle and divert to starboard after clearing the bridge, let the freighter go, and then run into Newport and drop a hook.

Just as I pointed out the green light above us indicating that we were under the bridge smack dab in the middle as I wanted to my wife, the outboard ground to a halt - quickly. We had picked up a lobster pot dead smack - #$(**&%^$%# crackheads - in the middle of the channel under the bridge with a freighter inbound at 14 knots!

We were assuredly anchored to the bottom and we had no way of knowing how much time we had before we should abandon ship and use the dink to get us the heck out of there. BTW - $3000 fine I hear for doing so... Anyhow, I was able to cut the line - I did NOT RETIE IT, send the lobsterman to this address..... - and get us the heck out of there. Just as we cleared the bridge we saw the freighter hugging the bridge to starboard. He had identified us on radar and determined that at some point we were not moving and slightly altered course. We traded pleasantries and I opened a beer!!!

My point is, IF we had radar, we would have been able to better judge our exact position in relationship to the threat and we would have been able to make even better decisions. Chartplotters are great, but they can't tell you that you are about to run into an anchored barge.

Sten

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2007 : 20:01:19

Wow!

Maybe I'm getting my radar sooner! I'm thinking you're lucky the freighter saw you on his screen if you were right under the bridge--I'd guess he'd be seeing a line representing the bridge. Did you make a sécurité call about your plight? No doubt getting free was your first priority... Whew!!

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aeckhart
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Response Posted - 01/03/2007 : 20:44:59

A truly close shave. We don't have a lot of boat traffic here in my home waters and the only freighter traffic is out in the sea lanes in mid- Lake Superior. Generally they will see you with their radar and keep an eye on you.....at least, that's what I've been told. It would seem that like most things, the equipment you have and use is highly situational. in your case, radar would seem to be the ticket. There are some nice sets out there. I did find one at the Minniapolis Boat Show last year that I almost bought because it was so compact and reasonably priced. My wife was all for getting it but I balked.

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ClamBeach
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Response Posted - 01/03/2007 : 22:15:12

That little JRC has a 12" radome... probably about as compact as it can get.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2007 : 22:54:59

I'm going to the Providence boat show next week--will try to get a look at the low-end JRC and Furuno units. From what I can find online, I think I like the Furuno display better.

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Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2007 : 07:17:10

Sten, I wouldn't feel any guilt -- not that I sense you do -- about cutting a fouled pot line in the middle of a marked channel. Years ago I confessed to a friend who is a Virginia Marine Resource Commission warden that I had cut a crab pot line when I fouled it in the middle of a channel, and he replied that it's illegal for pots to be in a channel, and when they encounter one, they either cut the lines or throw the pots up on the nearest beach.

On the other hand, knowing there's opposing big traffic coming in a restricted channel, I don't think I would be in the middle of the road. I'd either heave to and wait for the freighter to pass, or stay, as is customary, on the starboard side of the channel.

Years ago I listened to a radio conversation between the Officer of the Deck on the USS Theodore Roosevelt -- a Nimitz class carrier -- and a woman in a small sailboat about who had right of way in the Elizabeth River in Norfolk. The woman was claiming that, because she was under sail, she had privilege. She didn't -- vessels with restricted maneuverability always have right of of way in a channel -- but, as another friend once said, "tonnage always wins."

Radar's great, but discretion is the better part of valor.

Brooke

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dlucier
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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2007 : 07:51:02

At night, I wish the guy barreling down on me at 50+ kts had radar.

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 01/04/2007 : 08:05:48

At 50+ kts, he's probably bouncing around so much that you wouldn't even register on the radar!

Couple of points to consider when buying a Radar unit:
Power consumption (running outboard will supply most small units)
Note: Power consumption is partially determined by the scan rate and the output power, the display and rx'r power is pretty consistant regardless of the range in use.
Range: Both max and min are important!

At the end of the day, the choice must be based upon it's expected use (hence why big boats have more than one, not just a backup, but for different conditions). In a boat like ours, we're mostly concerned with objects within 1 mile (It would take over a minute for that 50+kts boat to get from "what's that!" to where you are as the crow flies.

A big plus would be a unit with weather features! Sure would be nice if it would chirp up with a dingle and then voice alarm, similar to 'Tom-Tom' --- "Danger Will Robinson! Squall approaching from the Starboard quarter!"

paul

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2007 : 16:56:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 ...A big plus would be a unit with weather features!...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I've been pretty impressed with how well they can show a squall line a number of miles away. For the audio warning, just leave an AM radio on and listen for the crackling. (Just don't tune in to Rush Limbaugh--you won't be able to tell the difference.

)

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ClamBeach
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Response Posted - 01/07/2007 : 15:16:37

Stumbled on this today... of possible interest.

http://www.yachtspecialties.com/backstaypole.html

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redviking
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Response Posted - 01/08/2007 : 17:18:22

Ideal! Thanks! Keeps it naturally out of the way and looks way cool! Might be able to take it to the next boat!

sten

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