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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Battery charging on bench

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Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/07/2007 : 09:09:24

I have now ruined more shirts and pants - you would think I would learn.

I'm maintenance charging 2 group 27 batteries on my workbench with one charger, alternating it between batteries about every week or so. I have the caps on as trickle charging isn't that forcefull, but I'm getting acid forming around the caps and running down the sides to under the batteries. Everytime I brush up against them, The next day I find a shirt or sweater with a few "acid" holes. :(

Are there caps on the market that can breath and yet not spew acid all over. I've checked the levels and my batteries are not too full. I've never had a battery that has done this. Part of the reason I think is the design of the battery openings that are recessed on the top, but have a small "port" to allow the acid or refilling water to run down the side of the battery. Not a good design. These are marine batteries from Sam's club.

Also, is baking soda mixed with water the best way to neutralize the acid that has come out.

Turk

www.turk.mysailboatblog.com
2003 C250 WK #663
Northeast Ohio
Mosquito Lake/Lake Erie

Edited by - on

dhogenauer
Deckhand

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USA
13 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2007 : 10:02:36

Turk,

Batteries should not "spew" acid around - something is wrong.

You asked, "Also, is baking soda mixed with water the best way to neutralize the acid that has come out." It is probably never a good idea to add water to spilled acid (there are exceptions, I'm sure) and you don't want to dilute a strong, concentrated acid by adding the water to the acid. In my experience just sprinkle baking soda right on the spill (wear eye protection and do it slowly). Keep adding soda until all activity has ceased. Water can be used to clean up the mess - it will be very neutral and benign.

Good luck,

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2007 : 10:45:04

>"batteries from Sam's club"
Possibly (probably?) cheap imports from China. They may not be exactly the 'best quality stuff' which might explain the acid-spewing caps. Most modern batteries have 'semi-sealed' venting designs or internal gas absorbtion technologies and don't spew battery fluid like the old days.

Note that "Marine Battery" can have different meanings... Marine Starting (designed for high-amp short duration discharge) or Marine Deep Cycle (designed for long-duration deep discharge). Deep cycle would be the appropriate type for a non-diesel Catalina. Deep cycle batteries should typically be charged at a lower rate than conventional batteries, especially when topping off.

IMHO: If you don't have a modern 'smart maintenance charger' (terminology varies) one would make a good investment.

Here's a couple. (just info, not endorsements)
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_197012_197012
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|328|51495|299265&id=131373

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2007 : 12:03:20

I agree that if the batteries are spewing while being charged, there is a problem.

Many chargers work by initially charging at high rates and start cutting back as the voltage comes up. If the battery is not capable of raising its voltage, the high rate continues and boils the fluid. If this is the case, the battery needs replaced.

The other problem could be that the charger doesn't sense the battery voltage because it is either a dumb charger or is malfunctioning itself.

If one doesn't have a good quality multi stage charger, I've had good luck with continues maintenance using a Harbor Freight very inexpensive trickle charger/with regulator that does a good job. These units have a small wall transformer and aren't capable of high rate charging and have a regulator to avoid charging over a fixed voltage.

In fact, the regulator I was using with my solar panel went bad and I stole the regulator from one of these chargers and it is working fine with my 45 watt solar panel. I actually expected it to crater as the panel exceeds the output ability of the wall pack it was designed to work with, but the little regulator has survived.

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 01/07/2007 12:07:11

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2007 : 18:00:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Arlyn Stewart
 I agree that if the batteries are spewing while being charged, there is a problem.

Many chargers work by initially charging at high rates and start cutting back as the voltage comes up. If the battery is not capable of raising its voltage, the high rate continues and boils the fluid. If this is the case, the battery needs replaced.

The other problem could be that the charger doesn't sense the battery voltage because it is either a dumb charger or is malfunctioning itself.

If one doesn't have a good quality multi stage charger, I've had good luck with continues maintenance using a Harbor Freight very inexpensive trickle charger/with regulator that does a good job. These units have a small wall transformer and aren't capable of high rate charging and have a regulator to avoid charging over a fixed voltage.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Arlyn

That is the exact device I am using. Harbor freight trickle charger with small transformer.

The batteries were bought new last season and are marine deep cycle batteries. The caps are definitely not acceptable. I believe a small bubble of gas forms and climbs the walls in a cell, and when it breaks it sprays out the cap.

I do have a very respectable full size charger that is computer chipped and runs quite well with basic charging from 25 amps - to trickle. Handles 3 types of batteries and circuitry to diagnose voltage. Also desulfating cycle.

I'm gonna look for different caps.

Edited by - on

Don B
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2007 : 19:29:03

What a coincidence...this weekend I just pulled my 2 year old deep cycle marine battery and put on a multistage charger. Made sure the caps were removed prior to charging...as soon as I started the charger, I could see the battery water start to percolate. The charger indicated the battery accepted the charge and all appears well.

My question...does anybody remove the caps prior to charging? Seems that if the caps were in place, more pressure (while charging) could produce an overflow.

Edited by - on

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2007 : 19:36:57

After doing some research on the internet, I'm finding out that acid volumization occurs during even low voltage charging. It is the vapor that escapes, not the leakage caused by breaking bubbles. Water miser caps have the ability to reintroduce the vapor back into droplets that fall back into the cell. They seem to be priced all over the board from $12.00 to $3.00 a cap. I guess I need to find thses on a reliable website at a low cost.

Has anyone tried these? Sounds like they may also reduce the evaporation of water from batteries that are in use on the boat and that receive constant charging.

Edited by - Turk on 01/07/2007 19:38:34

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2007 : 19:41:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Don B
 
My question...does anybody remove the caps prior to charging? Seems that if the caps were in place, more pressure (while charging) could produce an overflow.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yep, typically you would remove the caps when full charging. In my case I am just putting a maintenance charge on them and I don't want to leave the caps off completely.

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Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2007 : 22:36:24

Are any of you desulfating your batteries or just charging. If you never desulfate your batteries life will not be as long.

http://www.survivalunlimited.com/desulfator.htm

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 01/08/2007 : 11:28:19

Here's a link back to a previous thread on battery charging and electrolyte loss which might provide additional info: "[url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=12122"]Battery Charger Advice[/url]".

-- Leon Sisson

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redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 01/08/2007 : 17:15:03

Turk,

Silly question perhaps, but did you top off the batteries BEFORE charging them to full capacity? Also, I just heard from my motorcycle dealer that 10 and even 2 amps will fry a M/C battery.... The dealer encouraged me to hook several batteries up and that seems to keep the heat down and charges them all evenly.

while on the subject of batteries - it should be noted that most battery manufacturers recommend replacing marine batteries all at once or at least say both of the batteries in bank A, etc... They should be of the same age and condition for use and should be kept matched thruout their lifespan...

sten

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