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Ken Barnes - Website with rescue updates

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Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/05/2007 : 21:49:01

Pulled this website off another forum. Its the story of Ken Barnes - Nonstop Solo Circumnavigation attempt with rescue updates.

http://www.kensolo.com/

1997 250 TR WK (sold)
1984 O'Day 28 (sold)
1979 SISU 22
Bath, NC.

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2007 : 08:20:12

I bet they get married now! http://news.aol.com/photos/_p/ken-barnes-cathy-chambers/20070103212609990007

Also, note the 28 footer captained by Donna Lange http://www.donnalange.com/ who was only 150 miles from him and volunteered to rescue him. Put another mark on the small boat versus big boat argument.

sten

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2007 : 12:57:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
 Put another mark on the small boat versus big boat argument.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Then again, you'll notice Donna Lange isn't on a Catalina 25 swing keel with pop-top and outboard.

(But I wouldn't do what she's doing on any boat!) Barnes was probably rolled--Lange was probably not in the center of that storm.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 01/06/2007 13:34:29

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2007 : 13:14:18

I read Barnes log. His steel ketch wouldn't go to weather worth a damn. Here's another point for a sloop or cutter. Probably got rolled or pitchpoled, the damage was serious (lost masts, rudder, engine, forward hatch).

He was in a very dangerous part of the sea. I think people who have made it through there in small boats have to have a certain amount of luck on their side.

I am anxious to read about what happened to cause the accident.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2007 : 16:09:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimB517I am anxious to read about what happened to cause the accident.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> There's a link to a telephone interview with Ken on his website in which he describes what happened. He said he was running under mizzen alone in 45 knot winds and 25 foot seas, with the wind over the starboard quarter. A gust caused the stern of the boat to slue around, presenting its beam to the following waves, which rolled over the boat, stripping it of both masts and the rudder.

I never sailed a ketch, but every ketch sailor I ever read talks about "running under jib and jigger." The jigger is another term for the mizzen sail. A jib and jigger apparently provides a balanced sailplan, fore and aft, that is very stable downwind. With only a mizzen in those conditions, the stern would tend to slue around, as it did, when a strong gust applied wind force to the mizzen, without an equal amount of force at the bow.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2007 : 16:20:04

Steve: When you mentioned mizzen alone, off the wind, in a storm, I did a double-take! Now I'm mad at him for making that fishing vessel go out there and rescue him! If he wants to go around the Cape alone without learning how to sail properly, let him face the consequences alone and not drag others into it.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 01/06/2007 16:20:32

aeckhart
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1709 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2007 : 16:57:02

I'm sure he'll here about from the sailing community, in spades. This was obviously a seamanship error that nearly cost him more than he bargained for.

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saribella
Captain

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USA
286 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2007 : 20:28:29

This event have already generated a significant amount of feedback from the sailing community. ................... http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46367

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/08/2007 : 16:57:31

Interesting that the anarchists haven't really picked up on his running downwind on mizzen alone... To me, that was the near-fatal error.

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crcalhoon
Captain

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USA
303 Posts

Response Posted - 01/08/2007 : 17:10:02

If you haven't read Miles and Beryl Smeeton's book, "Once is enough," now is a good time. It is the story of their two attempts to round the horn.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/09/2007 : 07:41:25

I believe that all single handers attempting deep blue passages should sign a waiver that prevents rescue operations. It is unconscionable that people like him cost tax payers of all nations hundreds of thousands of dollars. If you are dumb enough to go you are dumb enough to drown. There is no bravado in stupidity and it is not right that good Samaritans circumvent the natural consequences at their own peril.

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 01/09/2007 : 10:18:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 I believe that all single handers attempting deep blue passages should sign a waiver that prevents rescue operations. It is unconscionable that people like him cost tax payers of all nations hundreds of thousands of dollars. If you are dumb enough to go you are dumb enough to drown. There is no bravado in stupidity and it is not right that good Samaritans circumvent the natural consequences at their own peril.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I agree wholeheartedly, Frank, when I go there won't be any phone calls or EPIRB beacons. Take it on yourself, figure it out yourself. BTW, jib and mizzen is a very stable sail plan on a beam or beat in moderate wind conditions, however, running in those conditions called for a blade alone and possibly a trailing drogue. That combination would have kept him from surfing in order to avoid a pitchpole and from slewing in order to a avoid a capsize. Idiot.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 01/09/2007 : 10:28:35

Most English-speaking countries follow the legal principle that says, if a man should encounter an injured person lying on the side of the road, he is under no legal obligation to render aid, and the injured person has no legal cause of action against him if he should walk on by.

We have no legal right to be rescued, regardless of whether we blundered into a dangerous situation as a result of our own stupidity, or were the innocent victims of fate. When the Coast Guard receives a call for assistance, they consider the extent of danger involved, as well as the capabilities of their personnel and equipment, and, if they can't render aid within a reasonable margin of safety, they'll wait until the conditions abate. If you can't keep yourself alive until they are able to come get you, then you'll die, so, ultimately, we are responsible for our own safety.

Many years ago, our local fire fighters were negotiating for higher pay and more benefits, and they were called to a house fire. Upon arrival, they refused to fight the fire, and stood there and watched an elderly lady's home burn to the ground. The court ultimately ruled that they had no legal obligation to fight the fire. (The City eventually paid the lady the value of her home, declaring it to be a moral obligation.)

I'd hate to think the government would refuse to come to our aid if we were injured or in danger as a result of our own stupidity. If that were true, at least half of us would probably be left to die at the scene of an auto accident, which are almost always the result of someone's stupidity.

Most of us would agree that even stupid people ought to be rescued, because most of us put ourselves into that category every once-in-a-while.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 01/09/2007 10:34:11

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 01/09/2007 : 10:58:42

Point of info, perhaps. Earlier on I read that his furling jib control line let go and the jib flailed itself to death. In which case he was unable to sail as we expected he should have. I question why he didn't douse the mizzen under those circumstances and resort to power until things settled down. But then we're all playing monday night q'backs here, aren't we?
And sitting here at the pc is alot easier to diagnose the what ifs and where fors of the situation than trying to pilot a boat too large for a single person to handle, and one of questionable design for the occasion as well.

I think he was in the wrong place at the wrong time in the wrong machine and it all caught up to him. I for one am glad he survived and didn't cause harm to any who saw fit to try to rescue him.

Hopefully he learned a very important lesson in all this. Buy a small fishing boat and go for flounders when the urge to challenge yourself comes over you.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT # 3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 01/09/2007 : 11:22:09

Well said, Val.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 01/09/2007 : 11:33:52

Good question, Val. He could have streamed a drogue and lowered his sails, to slow the boat down and keep the stern oriented to the waves. Then he could have replaced the furling line and the jib, and he would have been ready to go again.

We can only speculate as to why he didn't do that, or something similar. Maybe he knew Donna Lange was breathing down his neck, and he wanted to round the Cape ahead of her. By streaming a drogue, he would have given her time to catch up with him. Maybe he was seasick, and didn't think he had the strength to go forward to do the hard work of changing the sail and re-running the line. It seems to me, though, that if you're a single-hander, nothing will get done unless you do it. You have to take care of the boat first, no matter how bad you feel, because the boat is your best life raft, and, if you feel bad now, just imagine how much worse it'll be when you have to take to the inflatable.

He might have been gambling that nothing bad would happen if he kept sailing under mizzen alone, until the conditions abated, or until he felt better. But it looks like the self steering couldn't control the unbalanced sailplan.

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jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 01/09/2007 : 11:54:38

I'm looking forward to hearing Ken's report. I hope he keeps it straight and doesn't fudge any to sound better. I would not judge him and am interested to learn the particulars.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/09/2007 : 16:08:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jerlim
 I'm looking forward to hearing Ken's report. I hope he keeps it straight and doesn't fudge any to sound better. I would not judge him and am interested to learn the particulars.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
My reaction was based on his report. He matter-of-factly reports that he was sailing on mizzen alone with the wind on his quarter (as if that was a perfectly reasonable thing to do), and a 50+ knot gust caused the boat to slew around broadside to a big wave, which rolled him.

A ketch rig is not the best to windward, as Jim pointed out, but it offers a number of options for reducing sail in a balanced way. Jib and mizzen is one, and reefed main alone is another, depending on the particular boat. Mizzen alone downwind is not--it's like powering a rear-wheel-drive car through a slippery turn. Most boats already tend to slew sideways when on the face of big following seas--the mizzen alone forces that even more. A small amount of sail forward (like front wheel drive) and a drogue will help to prevent it. If he couldn't fly a jib for some reason, then he should have had a small sail--a triple-reefed main or storm trisail--on the mainmast and a bare mizzen pole.

To me, he's gonna hafta prove himself innocent, and probably has no business sailing alone in the Southern Ocean. If the fishing boat hadn't been available, Donna Lange probably would've felt obliged to do it, but would have gone a few hundred miles out of her way, into a storm she was trying to get away from, to do it. It's clear from her account that she wasn't keen on that, but probably felt she was part of the brotherhood (of yahoos). Whether it's climbing Mount Hood in the winter storm season or sailing around Cape Horn ("the graveyard"), I don't think much of people who do it for a thrill, are unprepared, and put other people's lives at risk trying to save their own. I may make a mistake once in a while, as Steve says, but I don't take that kind of useless risk, not knowing what I'm doing, and then expect you take the same risk to save my ass.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 01/09/2007 16:15:19

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 01/09/2007 : 19:17:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 A ketch rig is not the best to windward, as Jim pointed out...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Hey, I'd like to take exception to this concept that a ketch rig can't go to windward any better than a sloop. Sea Trac points like a bird dog...when the mizzen is furled. Not shown here, though.

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 01/09/2007 : 20:33:30

To rescue is the unwritten code of the sea. To advocate for anything else is less than seamanly.

A racer, name escapes, turned back 150 miles - beating - to rescue a fellow sailor.

I met a couple on an Oyster 40 from across the pond last summer who had "adopted" a Hunter owner and his crew including a dog mid ocean, first for several days at sea while repairs to the rudder were attempted, and then for several days as they had to transport them to the nearest port after they were forced to scuttle the diabled Hunter 40 something. I asked them how that was, and they said "Oh, no big deal really. It's just what you do."

sten

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 01/09/2007 : 20:37:24

oh and Donna Lange made it safely thru in the 28

sten

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/09/2007 : 21:17:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Sea Trac
 Sea Trac points like a bird dog...when the mizzen is furled. Not shown here, though.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It is furled.

Anyway, the detraction toward ketches relative to sloops is generally not so much their pointing--it's their speed (which in turn affects pointing). Note that they don't use ketch rigs on Americas Cup boats... But for passagemaking, they offer some very useful flexibility--in Ken's case, too much flexibility.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/09/2007 : 21:23:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
 To rescue is the unwritten code of the sea. To advocate for anything else is less than seamanly.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I wouldn't advocate against rescuing--I advocate against selfishly or ignorantly setting one's self up to have to be rescued. Barnes wanted a little adventure, but he didn't appear to want to become the seaman that is needed for such an adventure.

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Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 01/09/2007 : 21:45:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
[brIt is furled.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It had been a big wind day, and I had guests.

Edited by - on

crcalhoon
Captain

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USA
303 Posts

Response Posted - 01/10/2007 : 10:31:57

Well, if he did blow the furlng line on the jib it only reinforces the belief of many that roller furling is pretty neat close inshore and in lake sailing, but if you're going to sea get some big honky jib hanks and be a little old-fashioned and over rigged.

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 01/11/2007 : 11:20:18

Charles, No place is a good place to have your furler let go. A few years back mine let go in the middle of the Great South Bay in 18/20 knots wind and it had me high stepping for a time. I'm trying to imagine the circumstances had I been offshore, all the while thanking my lucky stars that I wasn't.

Hugo Vihlen mentions similar sea conditions in the North Atlantic in a 5'10"boat, "squirreling ( I think he ment spiraling) down mountainous waves for three days locked in his cabin and bolted to the floorboards with seatbelts", I wonder what prayers cover such conditions?

Val on the hard DAGNABIT, # 3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

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