Association Forum - Standing Rigging

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Standing Rigging

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Page: of 2

Fantasy II
1st Mate

Member Avatar

USA
80 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/08/2007 : 14:42:29

I have just found out from my PO that the standing rigging on my '81 tall rig has NEVER been replaced

so I have ordered a complete set of new rigging from CD. I am replacing everything based strictly on the time it all has been up. The spreader mod HAS been done, but I am wondering if there might be any other things I should consider during the standing rigging upgrade?

Bill
Stockton CA
'81 Cat 25 TR FK
"Fantasy II"
'88 Cat 27 SR FK "Deja Vu

Edited by - Fantasy II on 02/08/2007 14:45:35

ilnadi
Captain

Members Avatar

452 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2007 : 14:49:16

1. take the mast light apart and clean it while mast is down
2. are you replacing the pins in the masthead?
3. inspect the chainplates

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2007 : 14:52:45

Improve your backstay adjuster. I hope you went with new open turnbuckles, the solid ones are crap.

Edited by - on

Fantasy II
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
80 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2007 : 15:26:38

The kit from CD includes the open turnbuckles, thank goodness! I never did like those old ones. Yes, I will clean & inspect the mast lighting while the mast is down, but I'll stick with the original split backstay setup. Sailing on the San Joaquin river delta is not too hard on the boat (or the crew), and at my age I don't plan to do any racing. Any other suggestions?

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2007 : 16:17:35

Re: "I am wondering if there might be any other things I should consider during the standing rigging upgrade?" As mentioned above, while the rig is down, inspect everything carefully for potential problems. If everything is original, I'd pay particular attention to the mast electrics and sheaves. This would also be a real good time to rebed the chainplates, and seal the deck core while they're out. Maybe add a mast base plate if you plan to lead control lines aft.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2007 : 16:57:15

You might want to go to this while you are at it. CHeers.

http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=584

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2007 : 23:27:23

Dennis makes a good point--if you have the older stem fitting (without the tang that runs about 6" down the bow with a bolt below the rubrail) it's a poor design. CD's upgrade provides a stronger forestay chainplate plus an anchor roller as a bonus.

Do you have all-rope halyards? The original rope/wire halyards will eventually become a pain (if they aren't already)... To change, you need the proper sheaves at the masthead, so that's another trivial project with the mast down. If you keep the rope/wire, you might still be due for some new sheaves--the sun does a number on them after 15-20 years. (The original clevis pins should be OK.)

Edited by - on

Fantasy II
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
80 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2007 : 12:01:15

Thanks, everyone, for the input. I am still using the wire-rope halyards, and the boat still has the original stem fitting. But I don't want to completely "rebuild" the boat at this time, and as it is a fin keel and must come out of the water for the standing rigging replacement, I hope to get it back into the water as quickly as possible (one day?).

I am concerned about the halyard sheaves - does anyone know where the old ones can be purchased? CD says "no longer available." It will be the first time I have had the opportunity to completely inspect the rig with the mast down, so it is possible that I might run into some other unforseen problems that would need immediate fix.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2007 : 12:38:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Fantasy II
 I am still using the wire-rope halyards,...

I am concerned about the halyard sheaves - does anyone know where the old ones can be purchased? CD says "no longer available." <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

When I aquired my boat, it still had the original halyards (wire/rope). Those twenty year old lines were the first things to go. CD carries the replacement masthead sheaves for all rope halyards.

Edited by - on

Aceguy
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
77 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2007 : 12:54:51

What specifically is bad about the wire/rope halyards? In my limited lake sailing they haven't caused me a problem yet. Also, I have the original standing rigging on my 85' as well. My mast is down most of the time, so I have inspected it all very carefully (more than once). It all looks fine. I did replace three of the open turnbuckles with quick release units, but that's about it. Should I be replacing it all anyway "just because"?

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2007 : 13:11:47

Modern rope is stronger, lighter, cheaper, easier on the spar, easier on sheaves, and no thimbles to hang up under shroud tangs at the mast. My wire to rope halyards were the first thing I replaced and I was pissed off that the boat had them, I considered it an insult by the manufacturer.

Edited by - on

Fantasy II
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
80 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2007 : 13:23:05

Hooray! I found the wire masthead sheaves at Catalina Direct

That should keep my wire/rope halyards operational for another season. I do plan to convert to all-rope, but there are just so many updates one can accomplish at any given time. That one, as well as the new stem fitting, will be scheduled for end-of-season this year. I do want to get some sailing in

Edited by - on

cat1951
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2007 : 13:23:48

When we had our mast down last summer installing a new furler, we: Replaced the steaming light (got rid of the old one with the teak collar), replaced the anchor light (it had a BB sized hole directly in the top and the socket was pretty coroded), replaced and lubricated all of the masthead sheaves, and installed a windex. I kinda wish that I had looked more closely at the spreaders, but they are still in pretty good shape. OH YEAH...almost forgot something. We also lubricated and cleaned the slot where the sail guide slugs ride.

Sorry for all you long time mariners out there, I forgot the proper name for the part of the mast where the sail slugs ride when raising the main sail. Probably something real simple, but I am blank

Edited by - cat1951 on 02/09/2007 13:27:39

JimB517
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2007 : 13:43:08

it is called the Kerf.

Edited by - on

cat1951
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2007 : 14:14:31

Thanks Jim... I knew it was something very simple, but it just wouldn't come to me.

Edited by - on

farrison
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
166 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2007 : 14:22:40

Bill:

"...and as it is a fin keel and must come out of the water for the standing rigging replacement,..." Don't be so quick to think that you can only drop your mast when the boat is out of the water. I have a SR/WK which we put in and take out of the lake two time per year. I built the 'A' frame in the Tech Tips to raise and lower the mast, and it was a HUGE improvement in ease and safety in putting it up and down. We would pull the boat onto the trailer, and then drop the mast, a three person job (four if the wind is blowing). Last fall two of us went out to pull the boat for the winter. We turned the boat around in the slip ( stern into the slip, with the bow out)and tied it up closer to one side of the slip than the other. It was actually easier than having it out of the water, because you could stand on the dock and catch the mast, rather than having to balance a long board with a notch in it and catch the mast as it came down. I know it sounds harder but I was pleasantly surprised.

Edited by - on

Fantasy II
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
80 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2007 : 15:23:25

Farrison, I have lowered the mast while afloat in the past (on my other C25's), but the boat needs a power wash for the start of the season, and besides, at 72 years old, I would need a lot more help than is available right now to drop the mast while afloat.

The standing rigging is to be replaced by the local boat yard (I provide the CD kit), and while they are doing that, I intend to replace the defective knotmeter and depth sensors (through hulls). They can be replaced while afloat, but since the boat is coming out anyway, I'll do it at that time. I hope to get all the work completed quickly,and get the boat back in the water the same day.

I am still recovering from a triple coronary bypass in November last year, so I think it only prudent to have some professional help in this project. My physical condition is getting stronger every day.

There are lots of other projects to do (the boat is 26 years old, after all), but they will wait until the end of this sailing season.

Thanks again to all for the good suggestions - some will have to wait a little longer.

Edited by - Fantasy II on 02/09/2007 15:25:03

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3072 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2007 : 19:07:15

Be sure to order new spreader boots (the rubber caps that hold the upper stay on the end of the spreader) and rigging tape.

Edited by - on

Fantasy II
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
80 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2007 : 19:21:33

Yep - got the boots, Clam - and the spreader end caps! I still have to get the seizing wire to tie all of that together. Want to be ready as possible for anything that comes up. Also got some new clevis pins for the top-end of the rigging. The lower-end stuff comes with the CD kit. I have added the installation of lazy jacks to my "Out-of-the-water" day. The ones from Sail Care look real easy to install and use.

Edited by - Fantasy II on 02/09/2007 19:22:53

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2007 : 09:37:42

Now is also an excellent time to check the vhf cable and antenna...

Replace if needed. Use the sticky rigging tape to cover the top of the antennat to prevent water from running into the cable therefore reducing effectiveness.

Foam strips in the mast to prevent internal slapping noises on the hook? I used a couple of foam pipe strips from Home Depot..

I also recoomend replacing the steaming light with the one from CD that has the deck light built in... West Marine sells it too..

And if you are running a 135 genny or better - those click on sail rollers above the spreader work wonders towards preventing genny chafe and failure... Cheap!

sten

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2007 : 09:48:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 My wire to rope halyards were the first thing I replaced and I was pissed off that the boat had them, I considered it an insult by the manufacturer.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I was glad to replace mine too--my primary motivation was having longer halyards to lead back to the cockpit--got it all in kit form from CD. As for the manufacturer, those were the "proper yacht" halyards for zero stretch in their day. For some reason mine ended up with wire wrapped on the mast winch--not sure that was the intention. (Maybe they stretched!)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 02/10/2007 09:50:42

ct95949
Captain

Members Avatar

Aruba
300 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2007 : 13:05:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Aceguy
 What specifically is bad about the wire/rope halyards?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Ace- If you are still thinking about sailing the Bay, replace those halyards first. Just once get that thimble stuck in the shrouds with your boat tossing in wind and waves and suddenly it will be your top priority to replace them

. I replaced the sheaves and ran 1/4" line back to the cockpit. I can't think of any other upgrade I've done that was as easy, inexpensive, and helped so much.

Edited by - on

Aceguy
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
77 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2007 : 14:15:15

OK, I'm convinced. What guidelines should I follow on selecting the line for this? You mention 1/4" line, but the rope part of my existing halyards is definitely larger than 1/4". Is that just because they used bigger line then? I'm assuming the line side chosen dictates the sheaves that you use?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2007 : 15:18:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Aceguy
 What guidelines should I follow on selecting the line for this? ...I'm assuming the line side chosen dictates the sheaves that you use?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I went with a high-tech, 5/8" virtually zero-stretch line from Catalina Direct (as part of a package with the deck organizers, blocks, and clutches). Stretch is an issue especially if you have a roller furler held up by the halyard, as I did--I found that the tension stayed constant all season long.

Size is no real issue--there are 1/4" low-stretch ropes that are perfectly capable. The wire halyards (which can't stretch) are connected to larger rope mostly for comfort of handling. That's why I chose 5/16ths instead of 1/4. If you get sheaves for 5/16ths, they'll work fine with 1/4" halyards. I recall Derek Crawford, a serious racer, spliced a larger line (for handling) to a smaller one (for reduced windage and weight aloft)... That's getting too fancy for me!

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2007 : 15:21:41

1/4" fits nicely on the new sheaves you should buy from Catalina direct. There is very little room in the masthead so the new sheaves are pretty narrow. My 1/4" line has a breaking strength of 4800 lbs and virtually no stretch. If you are really picky go to layline.com and study up, then call them and discuss your situation and buy what they recommend, otherwise buy what CD recommends.

Edited by - on

Aceguy
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
77 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2007 : 18:23:13

thanks, I'll check with CD. Hopefully I won't have to replace my existing triple line clutch. Those things are pricey.

Edited by - on

Page: of 2

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.