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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

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mqp
1st Mate

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USA
46 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/02/2002 : 14:52:22

I'm looking for an outboard for a C25. Is a long shaft required?

Edited by - on

jm
Captain

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Canada
290 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2002 : 15:01:34

At a minimum, if you want to get the thrust below the water line when you need it..

Try reading these threads - they should answer alot of questions for you.

http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1350
http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=956

btw - WELCOME ABOARD !

Edited by - jm on 07/02/2002 15:02:02

Edited by - jm on 07/02/2002 15:06:53

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2002 : 15:03:59

Welcome!
A long shaft is not required - but strongly recommended. The longer the shaft, the better the chances that the water intake and prop will remain beneath the water surface.
Have you decided whether you will purchase a 2 or 4-stroke engine?
Where do you sail?

Steve Madsen
#2428
OJ (Ode to Joy)

Edited by - on

Ed Montague
Captain

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USA
499 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2002 : 15:06:32

If you are referring to a 20" shaft as 'long', this would be a minimum and not recommended by me. The best is the extra long. For Yamaha that would be 25" and Honda 28". If you motor on flat, calm water all the time or just in and out of the slip then the 20" will do.

Ed Montague on 'Yahoo'
1978 #765 SK, Stnd, Dinette ~_/)~

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2002 : 23:35:14

Actually, 20" may or may not do--it depends on your bracket as well as your conditions. The shaft length is the measurement from the inside top of the clamp (or the top of the board it's mounted to) down to the anticavitation plate. With the bracket down, measure from the top of the mounting board down to the waterline. You want the shaft to be longer than that by at least 3-4", and more if you expect to motor in significant waves. I don't know how high the factory (tubular stainless) bracket is above the waterline, but a Garelick that was on our boat when we bought it was 22" above the waterline, which was exactly the shaft length of the long shaft Honda the DPO put on it. With five people in the cockpit for our sea trial, it was OK........ <img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette "Passage" in SW CT

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LeighMarie
Navigator

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USA
188 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2002 : 09:23:47

I just went through a huge ordeal getting a new motor on my 1985 SW C25. I got a Honda 9.9 4-stroke motor and got the Long shaft. The place I got the motor from put a Garelick mount on it, but that mount only had 9" of travel, and it didn't get the motor in the water to even cover the whole prop (it's highly recommended to cover the whole prop and the water intake if you want to run the motor longer than about 30 seconds which is about how long it takes to fry the motor!). To make a 4 week long odyssey/nightmare/story short, I put my old bracketback on, which also is a Garelick, which has 14" of travel and the motor works fantastically. The extra long shaft would be too long, I think, especially for tilting it out of the water when sailing. Maybe it would work, but the long shaft works great. Good luck! The Honda long shaft is 25".

Dave & Sharon on "Leigh-Marie"
Hull #5128

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mqp
1st Mate

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USA
46 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2002 : 17:01:16

Wow, this is great! All great advices after only one day!
I just bought my C25 and plan to sail in the Chesapeake Bay (Annapolis).

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2002 : 20:17:42

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
The Honda long shaft is 25".
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
The Honda long shaft is 22.2, and the extra-long is 27.7. Dave and Sharon's experience support my suggestion to MEASURE, MEASURE, and then MEASURE. Figure out how far your bracket/motor combination will put the anticavitation plate below the surface. The bigger the waves you want to be able to handle, the deeper you want the prop--and generally, the deepest is the best. If your boat stays in the water, you also want to figure out the clearances for tilting the motor and getting the skeg out of the water (especially in salt). Figure the vertical travel of the bracket and the amount the skeg lifts vertically when you tilt the motor one or two notches--then check the horizontal spacing relative to the transom. You CAN figure these things out in advance.

As to whether the prop and plate will drag under sail, well, if you're racing, that could be an issue. Otherwise, it's my experience that even leaving the engine down (and in neutral) under sail makes no noticable difference. Sometimes we lift it, sometimes we don't. Lots of boats sail with an inboard prop or sail drive that's always dragging in the water...

I would recommend the extra-long shaft to anyone (except those on small inland lakes), mounted to get the anticavitation plate 4-6" below the waterline, and hope Dave and Sharon aren't disappointed the first time they're trying to push through a big chop. But be sure to MEASURE!

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 07/03/2002 21:00:43

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IndyJim
Navigator

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USA
130 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2002 : 02:16:08

Ahoy C-25 Skippers!

Today I replaced my 2 stroke 9.9 Evinrude Yachtwin (electric start/OMC remote control) I think it was as old as my 84 C-25. I pondered what size I needed vs. could afford for a couple of days. I searched the internet and did some comparing on the specifications too.

I replaced my 9.9 with a Yamaha 8hp, 4 stroke, long shaft, electric start, electric tilt, alternator/generator and it has an extra long tiller. The tiller length is nice because of the long reach when its in the water. The torque/thrust on the 8hp is without a doubt greater than my 9.9. This is probably due to the power thrust prop that also came with the motor.

All I can say is "WOW"! What a nice peice of work! She's quiet, she's powerful and, while I wasn't looking for the electric tilt, it beats the hell out of that spring loaded motor mount routine that I've gotten so used to! I'll be spoiled by this weekend!

I love not having to mix oil too!

IndyJim
"Itza Dew Sea"
'84 SK/TR #8425

Edited by - on

Rick Heaverly 86 C25 5382
Navigator

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Belize
206 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2002 : 03:46:43

mqp,

i sail on the chesapeake also, berthed at worton creek which is on the eastern shore and north of annapolis. you definitely want to keep your prop in the water on the bay due to power boat wakes etc. measure your bracket and go for the long shaft.

Rick Heaverly
"Invictus"

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2002 : 10:37:27

Even tho' I sail on an inland lake Ihave an extra long shaft Nissan 8h.p. When the wind blows the length of the lake (about a 7 mile fetch) for a couple of days it will generate 3' rollers and it takes that extra length to keep the prop in the water. (Once, on the old C22 with a long shaft I had to be towed in 'cos the prop was out of the water more than 1/2 the time and the wind was up over 30k!)
Derek

Edited by - on

Don Hood
1st Mate

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30 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2002 : 23:59:50

I have a new Nissan 9.8 4 stroke long shaft. Beware! I have not found any "qualified" people in the Chicago/lower Wisconsin to work on it. After trying to find someone and paying to have basically nothing done it took me a non-trained mechanic to fix the idling problem. I also tried to get the remote control setup and that was another disaster. Nothing fit right, the instructions were worthless and when I returned everything because of this, I was treated rudly and someday they tell me I will get less than half of my $430 that it cost. Since I have adjusted the idle myself it is not as exciting coming into the slip. If anyone wants to know the name of the marine shop where this happened email me at hooddon@hotmail.com. I am now happy with what I have but it was a hard road. My Nissan runs fine now and you may have better luck in your area.

Fair winds,
Don on Namaste' #1929 swk

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John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2002 : 19:16:32

While we are talking motors, I have a question which I will preface with an experience from a recent cruise. While sailing from Meldrum bay on Manitoulin Island to Drummond Island we crossed the Missisagi Strait and encountered some large swells coming in from Lake Huron. We were taking them on the beam and the outboard was taking a beating. At one point the motor was shoved off it's thrusting aft and suddenly was thrusting hard to starboard. This caused the mount to twist violently and I feared that we might lose the motor. I did have it tied to the boat so we could fish it out of the drink.

Here is my question. A motor on an external mount is vulnerable to theft and the type of violent shift in crossing seas, Has anyone seen or tried succesfully to install an outboard in an inboard well on a C25? It seems like the most logical place would be under the port locker. My father and I once had a Cape Dory 25 with an inboard well,
it seemed to work well.

Let me know if anyone has any ideas or has seen this done successfully on a C25.

John V. aboard Nin Bimash II Neebish Island MI
77 C25 sk/sr #153

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2002 : 22:01:36

John V... The C-27 was built with an outboard lazarette, but like the Cape Dory 25 and 26, it has an inboard rudder, so the lazarette could be centered. (In all three boats, it takes away from the cockpit space.)

The disadvantages of a lazarette-mounted outboard are typically that the motor can't be turned much if at all (especially the larger 4-strokes), its own exhaust bubbles can asphyxiate it unless you keep the cover open, and in most cases, you can't tip the motor to get it out of the water--of particular interest to us in salt water.

Otherwise, it could be an intersting idea! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2002 : 09:23:40

Come to think of it Dave when we used the auxiliary on the Cape Dory we always had to have the lazarette hatch open so that the motor could breath. It was very noisy. You mentioned the movement of the motor and another thing I recall about the CD25 was that being a full keeled boat, the rudder was not in the thrust stream of the well mounted motor. The thrust point was well aft of the rudder. Docking was very difficult because thrust could not be directed by the rudder and without headway the rudder was all but useless. I like being able to dock by using the directed thrust of the motor to pull the stern in after the bow has been recieved by the dockmaster. I would feel a lot better about my outboard if I could find a really good mount for my 9.9 Honda 4stroke. The motor is quite heavy, and we never could get it out of the water when under sail. I finally gave up and sacrificed the 1/2 knot we lost due to motor drag.

The motor on Nin Bimash II is mounted on the Port side and I really can't move it to the starboard, common on later models. What model of outboard mount produces the best result for the heavier 4 stroke motors? Catalina direct? west marine?

Thanks for your response Dave, I often read your responses to other threads and appreciate your expert opinions and the time you dedicate to this forum. I probably don't comment or ask questions as often as I might because I can count on you and a few others to provide an answer. So thanks for your reply.

John V. aboard (unfortunately faculty meetings will call me home soon) Nin Bimash II Neebish Island MI C25 sk/sr #153

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