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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Symmetrical Spinnaker

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kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/15/2007 : 09:29:39

Is anyone out there flying a symmetrical spinnaker on a C250? If so, would you by chance be willing to describe how it is set up?

I have a C250, but it has no provision for a kite, so I am going to have to add all the rigging. I am looking for whatever help and advice I can get.

Thanks,

Kevin Mackenzie
Former Association Secretary and Commodore
"Dogs Allowed"
'06 C250WK #881
and
"Jasmine"
'01 Maine Cat 30 #34

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

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USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 03/20/2007 : 18:54:26

We bought a book from west marine ,
"sail & rig tunning" by Ivar Dedekam
Its a great book with plenty of pictures .
their is a chapter on spinnakers .

Edited by - on

CaptRon400
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2007 : 16:08:27

Kevin -

You've got some work to do (to do it right at least).

First of all, you've got to add two lines on the mast - a halyard mounted above and forward of the genoa halyard, and a topping lift to control horizontal pole angle and outboard height. The topping lift usually exits at about halfway up the mast. You should also add some track on the front of the mast to allow adustment of the inboard height. The pole should be approximately horizontal. In order to gibe the chute it's halyard turning block MUST be above and forward of the genoas. Note that the mast is not really set up for any of this stuff when it leaves the factory.

Technically, you'll need two "guys" as well as the active and lazy sheets. The active guy controls the horizontal position of the outboard end of the pole and also holds it down. But, for a 25 footer, you can skimp on this setup and use the lazy sheet as the guy.

On a 25 footer with a lightweight shorter pole ("J" length, maybe 2 1/2 inch diameter) you can easily get by doing end to end gibes - where the pole is passed thru the triangle, inboard end becomes outboard end, etc.). Don't skimp and put a non-adjustable eye on the front of the mast to attach the inboard pole end. You really need some adjustment here, maybe 2 feet of track will do. If you sail off shore in heavier conditions I would think about a longer track that will allow the pole to be dipped when gibing (inboard end raised to allow outboard end to pass thru triangle).

Similar rigging is needed to go downwind wing on wing with a whisker pole. But, depending on the size of the genoa, a longer pole could be needed.

Where you really thinking symmetrical? An asymmetrical works nearly as good under some conditions, and better in others. And it's a lot easier to rig and sail with. No pole.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2007 : 16:17:22

Charlie (Sterngucker) is flying a sym spin on his boat that I sold him. He is flying it as an asym without pole. Works great on a reach. Can not go quite as deep as my poled spin.

I'd post this on the General Board because there is nothing special about rigging the C250 for a spin compared to a C25 or Capri.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2007 : 19:47:17

I can second the [url="http://www.amazon.com/Sail-Rig-Tuning-Ivar-Dedekam/dp/1898660670"]book[/url] Sean mentioned, I've been learning all kinds of stuff out of it. Since I don't have a good feel for how the rig should be tuned on the boat yet, I wanted a guide to work from. This book has lots of good pictures with very good accompanying text. Some things I thought I understood I realized I didn't after reading this book, and now I do.

Edited by - on

Russ.Johnson
Commodore

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USA
843 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2007 : 23:52:58

Kevin,

I don't have a spinnaker, so consider the source.
The owner's manual has some spinnaker setup info.
The masthead diagram shows the spinnaker halyard block.
The jib furler allows the existing jib halyard to be used for the spinnaker pole guy.
The deck plan diagram shows a spinnaker halyard rope clutch and cheek block.

I hope it helps, but you probably already knew it.
Russ #793

Edited by - on

kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 03/24/2007 : 18:51:58

Thanks all. Russ, no, I did not think to look in the owners manual.

And in response to CaptnRon, yes, I was thinking a symmetrical, after just finishing a North U course that taught me that asyms need to be sailed 30 degrees off the wind.

I am rethinking though, because GaryB, who sails the part of the river I will sail on most now (as opposed to where I was last year) says that if you get only one (asym or sym), he would get an asym, because it requires less crew (he has single handed his) and because (for him)it does nearly as well downwind as his sym.

I am going to talk to a couple of local sailmakers, see what they have to say. The issue is that where I sailed before, we very frequently were sailing near dead downwind, and there is not enough room in the river to reach back and forth. So I really want the best performance near downwind as I can get, but Gary has probably convinced me that the tradeoffs (more crew required) may make an asym the best choice for me.

Edited by - on

CaptRon400
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2007 : 09:15:07

Kevin -

If you're spending a lot time going almost dead down wind, think about flying a 135 (or so) wing-on-wing with a longer pole. When you've got some wind, it's a pretty effective way to move the boat when it's on your back. I've spent many hours on my 400 this way. Rig a preventer to keep the main under control. The symmetrical chute will work too, but note that a significant portion of the sail will be in the main's shadow, and gibing it can be a challenge. Forget about single handed. You're right - asymmetricals work better in the 80 to 150 degree zone - dead down wind puts it squarely in the shadow.

I never took a good look at the owners manual, but I seem to remember (from the two times I rigged it) that there are no exits for additional halyards inside the mast - so external may be the only way. Is there a hole on the mast top plate above and forward of the genoa halyard to mount a turning block? If you've got the room you can always make one.

Edited by - on

kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2007 : 13:49:35

Wing on wing with a 135 on a whisker pole is how I raced all last year. The spinnaker guys kicked my butt. Maybe I was doing something else wrong...but if I recall correctly, I was doing OK against similar size boats without kites...

Well, now I have gotten equal portions of opposite advice. Time to go sailing... ;-)

Edited by - on

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2007 : 20:59:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by SEAN
 We bought a book from west marine ,
"sail & rig tunning" by Ivar Dedekam
Its a great book with plenty of pictures .
their is a chapter on spinnakers .

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Just bought the book- wonderful illustrations. Here is a link to Google books and more than a few pages:

http://tinyurl.com/2owq88

Edited by - on

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