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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Head Stay Stem Fitting

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Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/27/2007 : 12:49:35

This past weekend I installed my new bow navigation light and while I was working on the pulpit, I noticed my head stay stem fitting is raised up partially. Here are a couple photos:

I tried tightening the screws, but the furler is in the way and the forward nuts are not very accessible as seen in this photo. There are four total from the top, the two front bolts are in a really tight spot:

I might add the upgraded stem fitting to my list of projects for more strength.
Should I be concerned? It appears that a previous owner may have had a slight impact where the gel coat is cracked on the corner. The rub rail is covering the front edge, so I can't see if it has moved. Does anyone else know if their's is raise like mine, maybe it was built that way? Or does it not look normal?

Thanks,

Justin
Previous Owner of Sapphire Breeze - 1982 Catalina 25 SK/SR
My sail blog site: https://reveriesailing.com/

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2007 : 13:42:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Justin4192
 Does anyone else know if their's is raise like mine,...?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ya mean raised like this?

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Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2007 : 13:50:11

A while back I remember seeing someone's post about repairing that section after that happened to their C-25. Is that your boat Don? If so, how did it occur? How is the rub rail removed to to install the new stem fitting?

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2007 : 14:02:26

No, that's not my boat, it came from someone else's bad luck. My boat came to me with the stem fitting upgrade. After seeing that ugly bow photo, if I didn't have the upgrade already, I sure would put it high on my list.

As a precaution, if I were you, I'd put it high on the list too.

Edited by - dlucier on 03/27/2007 14:03:50

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1813 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2007 : 15:00:24

I think this thread just anwsered yet another mysteries about my 25/tr/fk. I wish I had a digitized picture, but my boat has a thick custom fabricated SS fitting over the bow. The plate fits, has the head stay (a long one going down the bow @8 inches) and bow pulpit bolted through it -- and some ugly fiberglass work just under it. The fitting looks like a workboat -- solid but crude. Looking at this thread I can now envision what might have happened, but why? Is it normal for 25's, tall or standard rig, to have had head stays rip out or is this a sign of reckless use -- or an accident? Also, what are the typical fixes?

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2007 : 15:09:49

I agree with what Don said -- suggest you put the stem fitting upgrade on your to do list. There have been several threads here on the topic in the past, "[url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=4629"]Anchor Bow Roller[/url]" and "[url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=5159"]CD bow roller w/ bruce anchor?[/url]" for instance.

-- Leon S.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2007 : 16:00:59

Ripping out of the stem fitting could easily happen at my marina due to the concrete and steel docks, and the relative position of the dock to the forestay. On some days, my furling drum is about even with the dock and would take the brunt of a collision. This is one of the reasons I come in to my slip very sloooooowly.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2007 : 16:02:33

From what I've seen, that original stem fitting makes for the weakest chainplate on the boat--not one of Frank Butler's finest engineering jobs. My '85 had the tang that extends down the bow--not sure when they started that, but it was none too soon!

I think CD's upgrade can be installed by inserting the tang under the rubrail without removing it. But before any of that, I'd do some repair to that fiberglass, with a layer or two of matting inside and thickened epoxy in the holes and cracks. Then you can re-drill for the precise positions of the bolts on the upgraded fitting. Also, I have the feeling the washers they used are unnecessarily small--maybe CD's comes with some bigger ones. (This also gives you the option of having an anchor roller.)

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Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2007 : 16:29:25

Dave, you mention putting thickened epoxy in the holes and cracks. Which cracks do you mean, those external cracks in the gel coat? Or do you mean just lathering up the inside with epoxy and applying the fiberglass cloth?
My only fiberglass experience was building my R/C planes as a teenager and reinforcing wing joints with a little fiberglass and epoxy. I'm assuming there isn't that much to it, right? The external repair and gel coat is probably a different story to make it look good.
Thanks for the info.

Edited by - on

John Mason
Admiral

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USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2007 : 18:11:55

After reading about how easy the bow can lift and rip the original stem fitting out, that was one of my first upgrades.

Justin, if I was repairing your bow, I'd chip away anything that wasn't solidly attached, fill it in with glass matt or fabric cut to fit with polyester resin leaving a shallow recess, then get a small amount of gelcoat paste, mix with some white pigment and skim coat that over the matt until it's built up enough to sand smooth. Finish the sanding with 1200 grit and it should be nice and shiny.

The inside wouldn't hurt having a layer or two of glass and resin applied. Fill in the old holes with epoxy. The holes in the new stem fitting don't line up anyway. Drill for the new bolts oversized and fill those with epoxy as well. Redrill new holes correct size and...

Then put in the new stem fitting with the longer tang.

Edited by - John Mason on 03/27/2007 18:15:28

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2007 : 21:45:43

Justin--John's suggestions are good ones... When I look at your pic, I see more than gelcoat cracks. Part of that appears to be structural, right at the important hull-deck joint, caused as the bolt partially under the rubrail and the two forward ones on the top were pulled up. I suspect there's some torn/broken laminate under there. The good news is the upgraded stem fitting puts virtually all of the upward stress lower on the bow, where it literally pulls the fitting more tightly against the hull. But I wouldn't feel real comfortable until that hull-deck joint is structurally sound again. Some layers on the inside should do the trick, and then the gelcoat can be made pretty on the outside.

Now, let me add that I'm going on just one shapshot--maybe I'm overestimating the damage... But when those bolts were yanked upward--especially the one under the rubrail--something had to give. Notice that on Don's picture, the stem fitting is lifted from the glass just about like yours is--that probably happened just before the joint let go and the deck pulled up.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 03/27/2007 21:49:14

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2007 : 23:46:51

This how I reenforced my stem fitting. Got the idea from the Cat22 publications years back. After seeing the picture of the broken boat on the Forum it moved me. I used half inch aluminum for the bolt attachment to the stem fitting, it did take a lot fitting by trial and error. It did require a hole through the anchor locker base but 3M 5200 still looks good after 2 seasons.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2007 : 11:40:15

Jim's looks like an engineering masterpiece, but Catalina Direct's upgrade is a whole lot simpler and, I believe, at least as effective.

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sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2007 : 00:35:50

I really had trouble making the choice of what to do about the weak point on our boats. I wanted to show what I did as another fix for our boats but to take a hit like is shown above something has to give. I have seen the first CD's upgrade installed and they were really ugly but now I have seen better installations. That forward slotted bolt seems to be the big problem to remove for the upgrade with the rub rail in the way. How is it suggested to remove then install the upgrade?

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2007 : 10:44:19

dremel a notch in the rail, no big deal at all.

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djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2007 : 21:05:41

I dremeled mine out. It took five minutes. Cheers.

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