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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Swing Keel Question

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jlannutti
Navigator

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USA
102 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/27/2007 : 07:46:57

I'm the new owner of a 98 250 WB. The boat is currently up on stands. The swing keel is down about 1 foot (not enough to see where the cable connects) It takes WAY TOO MUCH effort to get the keel up any farther. I removed the protective boot in the cabin and I see that there is not much purchase available on the pulley system. I know that Catalina has a retro-fit pulley using a non-metalic cable and I have ordered the one. However I'm not sure that this will correct the need for Herculean strength to pull up the keel. Any input you can give will be appreciated.

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britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2007 : 08:12:01

Joe, welcome to the forum.

Not sure of the difference between yours and our 2005 model, but I agree it's a tough pull on the water, on stands it must be worse.

Can you jack the boat up a bit so that you can look at the 'turning ball', if the line is not in the groove of that ball, then it will be much worse.

On our boat we can peer down the tube in the cabin and just see the turning ball, it's not that big, and I can tell if the line is in the groove or not.

As you are going to replace the line with the (?)dacron(?) line, then you have to get accss to the keel, so you should check the turning ball is free at that time too.

Personally I feel that the block and tackle for hauling the keel is too small, so the friction is too high. Sometime I'm going to replace the tackle with larger blocks.

Again, welcome.

Paul

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JohnMD
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207 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2007 : 08:59:24

I did the same thing when I got my 95 250wb. The line that Catalina replaces the cable with is just a piece of Vectra(?) rope. Nothing unusual about it. I didn't notice that it changed the amount of force required to raise the keel at all. There are two places the line runs over when it changes direction that can stop turning. If the keel is down a foot, you can probably get to both of them and make sure they are 'free' and turning. If not, you can get them lubed and moving and that should help. After that, eat your vegetables and workout with weights. I sit on the cockpit floor and pull with both arms to raise my keel the last bit.

Edited by - JohnMD on 04/27/2007 09:01:26

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2007 : 10:30:56

Joe, In back of the four keel attach bolts and straight up in the keel cutout area is a turning ball, the cable runs over it and out to a pulley and then down to the keel attach. This turning ball must rotate with some degree of freedom. If it is covered with paint etc
it wont turn too good. Cover that whole area with WD40 and try moving that turning ball with a long screw driver. Have you tried raising and lowering the keel by hand without useing the cable? Could be the bearing the keel swings on needs some attention. The time to fix this is while the boat is on stands. Let us know how you make out.......

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528
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USA
181 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2007 : 11:29:04

I am guessing there will be additional force required on the stands since you won't have any boyancy acting on the centerboard. The turning ball should rotate freely. The upgrade has worked great for 4 years on Magic. I also put new nylon shims in to eliminate the lateral box banging at anchor. Take the time to do it all before you launch, it makes the boat much more enjoyable.

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jlannutti
Navigator

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USA
102 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2007 : 16:52:14

This forum is great! Thanks to all who have responded. If it stops raining here in Phila. I'll get over to the boat yard and have a better look. A note to "528"; tell me more about these shims. I'm unaware of where they are/should be. Again, thanks to all.

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Russ.Johnson
Commodore

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USA
855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2007 : 17:06:15

Here's a previous post of mine.
It's about a different topic, but it does have a picture of the shims
[url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11971"]Centerboard Shims[/url]

You can also use the Search feature to see other posts.
Russ (#793)

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2007 : 18:07:41

Here is the deal on the system... when everything is working fine, the system works ok but with little margin for performance loss and unfortunately there are several locations that can add drag and the sum can very difficult or prohibitive to operation of the board.

Starting at the board, the wire line goes over a mid trunk block... is that block turning and is the line indeed on the block and not squeezed beside it.

Next comes the turning ball aft in the trunk, it turns the line up into the rubber tube... is it free to turn or has it stuck and the cable worn a slot in the ball?

Last on the cable end of the system is a wire block under the cockpit... It is an inexpensive nickel plated small wire block that I've found to suffer the block straps squeezing the block causing it to drag... nickel makes a horrible bearing surface. The fix here is to pull the pin, bend the straps out a bit and add the washers (nylon would be the best choice).

Now to the block and tackle rope end of the system... the problem here is if the installer followed the Catalina drawings, the result is that the entry of line onto the triple block (lower) from the cockpit is at a significant angle to the block and over time twist knots are injected by that poor pull angle into the block and tackle. These multiply the size of the line and cause it to be very difficult to pull through the sheaves as well as very stiff line when twist knotted so bad.

The fix if this is happening is simple... one end of the system has a twist shackle on the block where it mounts via an eye strap...simply remove it and move it to the other block and the entry angle onto the triple block should be much better and the knot injecting will stop.

Check each of these locations and when all are working great... the board will be manageable.

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jlannutti
Navigator

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USA
102 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2007 : 12:57:24

I spent some time on my back today,...under the boat that is, and found that the roller ball was indeed jammed/frozen. With a great deal of effort and WD40 dripping im my face I finally got it to budge and it eventaually gave up. It will turn easily now. All the other potential sources of friction operated freely. I can operate the board now but it is still way harder than it ought to be. Perhaps in the water it will be easier. The keel is still an inch or so from being fully retracted when the pully system is at its limit. The retro kit should be here Tuesday aznd perhaps I can adjust it a little to get that last bit of purchase.
Thanks

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528
Navigator

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USA
181 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2007 : 08:41:27

Joe,

I took the stock shims to the hardware store and found some nylon ones that were about 3 times thicker than the originals. Installing them took some heft. There was alot of friction the first couple of operations, but they quickly seated/shaved/who knows what themselves, and have worked flawless for 4 years. Don't worry about the last inch, I believe most release a little so the line doesn't get pinched.

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mjnee
1st Mate

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USA
36 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2007 : 16:47:39

Quick question. The replacement strap for the swing keel. Did you order it on-line from Catalina or did you have to call them?
Mike

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bill bosworth
Navigator

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USA
172 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2007 : 06:18:38

The centerboard has a lot of flotation, as I understand it, they add about 90 lbs of lead to the end of the board to get it to go down. The cable attaches to the centerboard at a point only about half way down cutting the mechanical advantage of the system roughly in half. When you add this and the lead weigh it makes for a very hard pull when the boat is out of the water. Once the boat is launched the flotation of the board works for you and greatly reduces the force needed to raise the board (assuming that everything is working correctly). I would suggest that if it's necessary to raise the board completely when on stands, to have someone help by pushing the board up, or to add a stand under the board. Putting to much force on the system to gain the last few inches might put to much strain on the system causing damage to the blocks and cable.

best of luck with your new boat, I'm sure your going to love it.
Bill c250wb #134 Serendipity

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